In or out of the EU, how will it effect the boating community.

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by woodenboats

Very few will be sorry if they leave.

Have you personally asked every EU citizen what they want? Or how do you know this? Any polls? I'm curious to know if "most" people feel as you do.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by woodenboats

If they want to get rid of EU stupidity they will know how to vote. Very few will be sorry if they leave.

Sent from my Lenovo B8080-H using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

My greatest concern is that we will bottle it at the last minute and loose the only opportunity for a generation to escape

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Pete7

My greatest concern is that we will bottle it at the last minute and loose the only opportunity for a generation to escape

Well at least the German Finance Minister is honest.. he said he would cry if we leave..
Hollande meanwhile does what the French do best.. bluster a lot.. token resistance then roll over and do the 'Dying Fly'...
They are crapping because if/when we leave they have to make up a shortfall of around £10billion a year to cover the cost of the latest lame duck countries the 'Brussels Empire' has brought in..
Meanwhile David Cameron is trying to convince everyone he's a Shark not a Guppy..
As the former French Ambassador to Germany said earlier on France24.. for anything to change in the EU it must be passed by Germany or France or it will not happen.. the Franco-Prussian Dream still lives on

[Ribbit]

I've crisscrossed Europe for many years on my motorbike (I love Europe and the diversity of its people).

I noticed a massive seed change in the attitude of the people in every Country I travelled in, between 2008/2009 (visits to Spain, Portugal, Andorra, France, Germany, Austria, Italy, Slovenia, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Italy, Czech Republic, Luxemburg, some more than once) and my 2010/2011 trip (Spain, France, Italy, Austria, Hungary - stuck there for an extra 5 weeks due to appalling weather which curtailed the travels a bit - Poland, Czech Republic, Germany, and France, some more than once).

In 2008/2009, I came across a few with similar sentiments to woodenboats (a couple of Dutch guys particularly). In 2010/2011, I didn't come across any. Hostility to the EU had increased dramatically (even in Germany).

I tell you this, if the media had covered the hissy fits the EU has been throwing at Hungary since 2010, when they started cleaning out the corruption, EVERYBODY in the EU would want out. The word 'scandalous' doesn't even begin to cover it.

I still think Hungary might be the first one out, but there's a few lining up.

[Lizzy Belle]

Just watched an interview with our PM.

They're opening negotiations with Turkey again to join the EU.
Not that they ever really stopped, but now we're all allowed to know they're working out how to sell it to the general public make it happen.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

Just watched an interview with our PM.

They're opening negotiations with Turkey again to join the EU.
Not that they ever really stopped, but now we're all allowed to know they're working out how to sell it to the general public make it happen.

Another Merkel/Hollande inspired crap shoot..
Take back all the non Syrian refuges and you can join the EU..
Suddenly the situations Not her fault.. its Turkeys for letting the refugees through.
And these two expect us to trust them.?? Dumb and Dumba...

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Another Merkel/Hollande inspired crap shoot..
Take back all the non Syrian refuges and you can join the EU..
Suddenly the situations Not her fault.. its Turkeys for letting the refugees through.
And these two expect us to trust them.?? Dumb and Dumba...

The EU politicians need to grow some balls. It's just ridiculous that they let hundreds and thousands of illegals just to wonder from country to country undocumented. I especially cannot believe that Hollande lets thousands of so called refugees live in the camps around Calais undocumented.

The incompetence of the EU's handling of the refugees and the external boarder security makes feel very negative about the future of life within the EU. I'm lucky that I am packing up and moving back to Aus very soon. If I was from the UK, I think I'd be voting with Boris

[alingher]

Ohoh, if the public discourse on the Brexit is on the same level as in this forum then I would be bloody scared, living in the UK...

Anyway, the question was, how boaters will be effected. The answer is: it depends on what treaties you will have to replace the membership.

In Switzerland we have hundreds of treaties and agreements with the EU. And those are not just nice-to-have - we would be well screwed if we hadn't. So would be the Brits. I am Swiss and I have a boat under Swiss flag in the EU. Thanks to those agreements (Schengen/FMOP...) I am mostly treated like an EU citizen. Thus everything in between being treated like an EU citizen and being treated like an Eritrean citizen will be possible and part of negotiations.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by alingher

Ohoh, if the public discourse on the Brexit is on the same level as in this forum then I would be bloody scared, living in the UK...

Anyway, the question was, how boaters will be effected. The answer is: it depends on what treaties you will have to replace the membership.

In Switzerland we have hundreds of treaties and agreements with the EU. And those are not just nice-to-have - we would be well screwed if we hadn't. So would be the Brits. I am Swiss and I have a boat under Swiss flag in the EU. Thanks to those agreements (Schengen/FMOP...) I am mostly treated like an EU citizen. Thus everything in between being treated like an EU citizen and being treated like an Eritrean citizen will be possible and part of negotiations.

It will return to for example.. me arriving in Cherbourg.. tying up at the 'Q' island pontoon till I have cleared in.. then when I've moved to a marina berth I may.. or may not have got a visit from the marine police who would be horrified that I'd sailed my Tiki 26 from Poole with just a chart and compass.. no radar, GPs, life raft, etc etc.. and be totally pissed off because there's nothing he can do about it..
Unlike the Hoops one has to jump through today..
So many 'Newbies' who don't realise the freedoms we once had.. and how little the over regulation imposed has to do with safety as opposed to increasing state revenue.
I think boaters will be voting according to what best for their wallets..
What's actually best for the Country is way down the list..
Personally.. it'll likely be a Lose-Lose..

Stick to Chocolates and Banking..

[Polux]

Originally Posted by hoppy

I doubt there will be much of an impact. The UK would probably either join EFTA or negotiate something similar. There will also probably be some agreement on immigration that will allow UK citizens to work in the EU and visa-versa but with restrictions. I'd doubt that UK visitors will be subject to the 3 month Schengen or the 18 month boat restrictions....

The problem here is the Vice-versa. That is basically what the EU is about and the British are not good at that neither desire to be.

I don't think that being out of EU it will be applied to the British any more favorable treatment than to any other foreign country. I believe people on EU countries would strongly object to that.

But I believe the worse would be the animosity of the authorities towards the ones that don't want to be part of EU and that will enforce the law in a more strict way than regarding other foreigners. That animosity will not have nothing to do with their country but it will be a personal one, identical to the one of other EU citizens.

Maybe you have a different picture giving the efforts made by EU to maintain British on the EC (that is Political important) but the truth is that common EU citizens are tired and pissed with the arrogant British attitude towards EU and see them as an obstacle for an increased union regarding a federal Europe and if it would depend on them UK would have been kicked out from EU long ago.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by hoppy

The EU politicians need to grow some balls. It's just ridiculous that they let hundreds and thousands of illegals just to wonder from country to country undocumented. I especially cannot believe that Hollande lets thousands of so called refugees live in the camps around Calais undocumented.
...

There is a big difference between immigrants and refugees and we are on the middle of an humanitarian crises.

It is not expected refugees to have any sort of papers. True that there are many that are using the humanitarian crisis and the refugees to just immigrate but is not an easy situation to deal with and what most countries have made is to put humanitarianism ahead of law in what regards some of those situations.

But I agree that something as to be made and not in Europe but to end the reasons that lead to that humanitarian crisis, starting with Syria and Americans and Russians putting their own strategical interests ahead of the interest of local populations that are fleeing a devastated war country.

[boatman61]

That's not what I hear in Coimbra.. seems to me the Portuguese are sick of the EU.. else the 'Rabbit' would not have been dislodged and replaced by the Left Wing party who wish to fight the Austerity Program thats seen 'Pensions cut, States and public wages sliced to the bone and benefits reduced.
And that's a big joke as well.. 0.70cent/mth increase in basic pensions.. its a sad joke..
The only ones screaming are the Fat Cats who do not have to carry the burden.. that they dump onto the 'scrounging masses'..
Nothing against 'Loadsa Money' just dislike folk standing on the faces of others to achieve it..

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Ribbit

...
I tell you this, if the media had covered the hissy fits the EU has been throwing at Hungary since 2010, when they started cleaning out the corruption, EVERYBODY in the EU would want out. The word 'scandalous' doesn't even begin to cover it.

I still think Hungary might be the first one out, but there's a few lining up.

Don't really understand what you mean. Yes EU has been a bit embarrassed with the Hungarian government and it seems you see the problem by an opposite perspective as if it was Hungarians that want to come out of EU.

They went in EU by a referendum with almost 85% of favorable votes and want to stay in. EU is not satisfied with the way they are proceeding and to be in they have to follow the rules namely regarding democracy and humanitarianism.

"Just as one rotten apple can spoil a barrel, one brutish autocrat can spoil a political union. As Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has consolidated power and built an increasingly authoritarian regime, he has thumbed his nose at the European Union—and mostly gotten away with it. Over the past few years, Orban has been a mild embarrassment for the union, but in his callous and shortsighted reaction to the ongoing refugee crisis, he has become a disgrace....

Styling itself as the defender of Europe’s so-called Christian civilization against an Islamic invasion, Orban’s regime has left thousands of refugees to languish in fields and in the streets, forcibly herded others into squalid detention camps, and fired water cannons and teargas at refugees gathered against the razor wire fence Hungary has erected on its border with Serbia.

European civilization may in fact be at risk. But it is Orban and his regime, not the desperate men, women, and children marching along the highway from Budapest to Vienna, who pose the real danger.

The European Union claims to stand for liberal democracy, respect for human dignity, and human rights. With his regime’s xenophobic rhetoric and hostile treatment of refugees, Orban is making a mockery of these values... "

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...ungary-problem

[Jason Flare]

Interesting that the country labeled, "Hungary" is not allowed autonomy.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

Interesting that the country labeled, "Hungary" is not allowed autonomy.

The Only time anything happens in the EU is if France and Germany approve it.. the rest fall in line as a norm.. even the Portuguese.. an MEP gets nearly as much as the Prime Minister..
One MEP walked out in disgust after 2mths.. he was nauseated by the waste and corruption..