In or out of the EU, how will it effect the boating community.

[boatman61]

Polux.. Au Contraire Mon Ami.. time for more 'Del Boy'.
This may seem a dim witted ramble but its my view so bear with me folks..
I am not locked into the Past as you say.. one does not survive long looking backwards if one lives by their wits.. they survive by looking where they step and thus have the ability to side step rather than fall into the uncovered manhole..
I completely get where you and the Middle/Upper class Portuguese are coming from..
Portugal is gradually losing its identity.. the official language is now Brazilian and over 500 everyday words have been changed in the Portuguese Dictionary to reflect this.. the minority can no longer claim to be the Mother Tongue.. talks have taken place with a view to Portugal being absorbed to create a Greater Spain.. though the only commonality lies more with Galicia than the E and S Spain.. a region where Franco tried to kill off the Galego language and traditions..
Most of your youth and talent goes abroad as Portugal has no real economy once Tourism and Port are taken out.. Salazar kept you down..
Your links are more French than British in spite of us helping you drive out Napoleon back when.. so much so it was your second language taught in schools until very recently when it switched to English..
Many see the EU as the only way to retain your Cultural Identity and heritage as opposed to being absorbed into Spain.
Another thing.. Portugal is also made up of 4 'Kingdoms' like the UK.. the first starting in Coimbra with Don Dinis who grew powerful enough though his marriage with Santa Isabella to take on the others and expand to create over the years the Portugal similar to today..
All you have left today is a toe hold in Angola and the Cape Verdes.. a Madeira and Azores who do not consider themselves Portuguese.. they are 'Azoriano's' and you are referred to as 'those Continentals'..
The EU is the drowning mans straw.
I have witnessed the arrogance of the privileged in Pakistan destroy what could have been a great example of an Islamic Theocracy had they harnessed the innate intelligence and ingenuity but no.. they chose to keep them suppressed.
Now I've said I'm uneducated.. and by set standards I am.. however my Curriculum was set by Cambridge University which was charged with the task of educating the Colonists who ran and maintained the Empire.. a far superior Curriculum than that set by Oxford for the UK population designed to keep them dumb.. at 11+ one chooses ones subjects to study.. the only compulsory subjects being the 3 R's... whereas Cambridge was constant expansion of subject year after year providing a FULL education.
The Empire was not lost by Cambridge.. it was lost by Eton and Oxford 'Flashman's' of limited intelligence and unlimited arrogance.. and its the future that these idiots offer that concern me..
More of Before.. because since the 1960's Educated Youth scared them shitless.. much like in the USA the bulk of the British lack the intelligence to make a logical decision.. they've been groomed to advocate their responsibilities for to long.
But.. I am ever an Optimist.. where there is a pulse.. however weak there is a chance to LIVE...

[Polux]

Originally Posted by hoppy

I hell of a lot has happened since then.

Yes in 2013 EU was a lot worse than now. There was serious concerns about Euro survival.

Ireland and Portugal and not yet been able to go out in a clean way of economic help programs. All that is on the past now, Spain and Italy are also much better than than and EU had started.

As you can see on this chart things are now a lot better than 2013 and certainly much better than in 2009. Being better than in 2013 will probably means that the opinion is even more favorable now than it was in 2013.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Polux

I don't think you are following what I am saying. The sacrifices of West Germany to integrate East Germany were worth it because they resulted in a stronger and wealthier Germany.

The Germans themselves don't seem to believe that their country has gotten stronger and wealthier...

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Polux.. Au Contraire Mon Ami.. time for more 'Del Boy'.
T...
Portugal is gradually losing its identity.. the official language is now Brazilian and over 500 everyday words have been changed in the Portuguese Dictionary to reflect this.. the minority can no longer claim to be the Mother Tongue.. talks have taken place with a view to Portugal being absorbed to create a Greater Spain.. though the only commonality lies with Galicia than the E and S Spain.. a region where Franco tried to kill off the Galego language and traditions..
...

Well, this has become ridiculous in what regards misinformation and I am not interesting in commenting more nonsense other than the last you posted.

Even the Brazilians say that they talk Portuguese and all the Portuguese speaking countries are reunited under the CPLP that means translated: "Community of Portuguese Language Countries". Contrary to the English regarding the American, all countries subscribe an orthographic agreement, that is revised from time to time to assure that the Portuguese will not risk to turn in the future in different dialects, or local varieties.

Presently the community has 9 member states and 6 observers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commun...uage_Countries

Regarding Spain and Portugal your ignorance seems to be very big: Portugal is a state, one country and one culture. Spain are a state with 4 countries, 4 cultures and 4 different languages (Basque, Catalan, Galician and Castillian).

On each of those countries there are political movements and considerable number of citizens that want independence from Spain. Particularity in Catalonia the number is very close to 50%.

The tendency regarding Spain is the opposed of a greater Spain but of a bigger autonomy (or even independence) regarding the different countries that constitute Spain.

There is not in Portugal any political movement that defends or suggest the union of Portugal and Spain, for a greater Spain and the same regarding Spain in what regards proposing the unification of Portugal and Spain.

Spain has already too much problems (a bit like UK) maintaining its own cohesion between the different countries that constitute the state.

That does not mean that the Portuguese, as the Spanish (in their various cultures) are not interested (quite the contrary) in increasing the good relationship between the two states that were for centuries enemies but that have much common cultural similarities and many things in common.

I am out of this thread.

[boatman61]

Okay Polux.. no worries mate..
As I said many times before.. I am the 'Uneducated' one..

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by Polux

I don't think you are following what I am saying. The sacrifices of West Germany to integrate East Germany were worth it because they resulted in a stronger and wealthier Germany.

The West Germans would have accepted the hardships because they were helping their "cousins" and in many cases their actual cousins. Regardless I'm sure many Germans wanted reunification for patriotic reasons and the divided country would have been a reminder of the bad old days.

I'm sure Germans who went through the reunification would be weary of going through another period of hardship to help other countries with similar cultural values and work ethics. Hardship to help lazy, thieving southern Europeans (not my opinion, just a guess at what some Germans perception might be after the Euro crisis) is not something many Germans would be willing to consider. Without Southern Europe, Germany will be doing very well anyway.

I think it would take a massive cultural shift in some Southern European countries for them to benefit Germans.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by Polux

Being better than in 2013 will probably means that the opinion is even more favorable now than it was in 2013.

I HIGHLY doubt that...

The Greeks needed yet another bail out will have people questioning the whole Euro/different cultures issue.

Then there is the migrant crisis, a mess made so much worse by Germany & Sweden. Sweden held out the carrot of permanent residency so they could revel in the feeling of moral superiority that they so love, whilst Germany, I assume because of a feeling of '39-'45 guilt said come. Now that they are panicking about the numbers they try to dump their problem onto other EU states. If those to countries were to have a say on migration within a Federal Europe, then I can see that they will be forcing countries to accept people they don't want or need, just the way the Federal German government has been doing to German states.

People will be vary wary of Federation now.

[valhalla360]

I would take the polls saying the people in the EU love the EU with a huge grain of salt. They've been threatened time and time again that they will be reduced to 3rd world status if they leave.

Of course, they aren't going to support moving to 3rd world status but in reality short of intentionally punishing a country that leaves, no one is going to move to 3rd world status.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Ian Streten

With the upcoming in or out EU vote in June 2016 for UK residents & as a yachtsman who spends most of our Summers in Greece was wondering how it would effect our standing if as a Nation we vote to come out. Will it mean that we will be subjected to the same legislation as non EU yachtsman? Hope this does not sound to shallow but the thought of restrictive movement for us around Europe will certainly influence our decision whether to vote in or out.


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Returning to the OP..
I believe it will return to as it was.. the worst that can happen is the occasional petty official with prejudices will give folks a hard time however that situation exists now as many know.
We'll get more Stamps in our Passports that's for sure.. but hell.. in every marina at the moment.. even in the same country we have to produce All our documents.. including Passports which are photocopied and filed.. as before.
It will boil down to economics.. if they get too antsy.. the sight of half empty marina's as the Brits pull out of the Med, sell off their properties etc the attitudes will mellow.. but I doubt very much if it will come to that.
The English Fox News.. Sky has just asked the question..
'What will happen to the Exchange Rate.??'
What always happens.. people will buy or sell the £.. it all is down to the World Markets.. not what the 'Gnomes of Brussels' decide..
What is of greater interest to me is.. 'Will VAT still be applied at the 'Mafia Protection' rates current..??
I've yet to see a Government reduce a Tax of this type.. but man would it be a boost to quality British Boat Builders if it is..

[barnakiel]

Brexit will bite both the British sailor abroad and the boating industry in the EU.

UK boats will be more expensive to buy in the EU. All UK boat hardware will be now more expensive in the EU. Oysters, Mustos, Raymarines and Marmites ...

UK sailors will undergo non-EU procedures and taxes throughout the Med and all the way out to Canary Islands, Martinique, Guadeloupe, St Martin/-teen, Dutch Antilles, French Polynesia (the bond will be required now), New Caledonia, Reunion, and all other EU (French and Dutch) overseas territories.

UK sailors will undergo border control procedures when sailing between EU countries and will be limited to non-EU visa limited stays. EU sailors will lose the right to freely travel, WORK and SETTLE in EU countries. Goodby to that retirement dream in Greece and Costa Blanca.

Med countries will lose 75% of the associated business, which will seriously affect economies of Greece, Italy, Spain and other heavily tourist oriented communities. Bummer.

Etc. etc. etc.

b.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Brexit will bite both the British sailor abroad and the boating industry in the EU.

UK boats will be more expensive to buy in the EU. All UK boat hardware will be now more expensive in the EU. Oysters, Mustos, Raymarines and Marmites ...

UK sailors will undergo non-EU procedures and taxes throughout the Med and all the way out to Canary Islands, Martinique, Guadeloupe, St Martin/-teen, Dutch Antilles, French Polynesia (the bond will be required now), New Caledonia, Reunion, and all other EU (French and Dutch) overseas territories.

UK sailors will undergo border control procedures when sailing between EU countries and will be limited to non-EU visa limited stays. EU sailors will lose the right to freely travel, WORK and SETTLE in EU countries. Goodby to that retirement dream in Greece and Costa Blanca.

Med countries will lose 75% of the associated business, which will seriously affect economies of Greece, Italy, Spain and other heavily tourist oriented communities. Bummer.

Etc. etc. etc.

b.

This all assumes that there are no free trade agreement or immigration agreements made post Brexit.

[boatman61]

The big Cuckoo in the nest is that many forget the nature and temperament of the British people..
I remember during Harold Wilsons Government, Ford Motor Co threatened to pull out off the UK and move to Europe because they objected to paying more than 50% of a mans wage to a woman doing the same job..
Harold Wilson went and hid and 188 women.. (one of whom was Barbara Castle whose neck was on the sacrificial block..) told the Ford Motor Co to "Walk and be Damned".. Ford settled at 90%.
You can use us.. but don't ever abuse us..

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by hoppy

This all assumes that there are no free trade agreement or immigration agreements made post Brexit.

The buearocrats, not having clearly defined rules will probably be paralized and life will simply go on unchanged until they get new rules approved.

By the time everyone gets around to setting up and agreeing to new rules, everyone will have settled down and the rules likely won't change much.

[sirfer]

Wow...I've been following this topic for a while....it certainly polarises opinion one way or the other.
One would like to think that the UK politicians on both sides of the argument are putting party politics and personal ambition aside as this decision may well change the course of history for Europe.
One would also like to think that the European politicians who are saying that it is in the best interests of the UK to remain in Europe, are doing so out of a genuine concern for the best interests of the British people. After all, they do hold us in such high esteem! And of course, every European country has always put its own interests aside in pursuit of the greater good!




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[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by boatman61

The Empire was not lost by Cambridge.. it was lost by Eton and Oxford 'Flashman's' of limited intelligence and unlimited arrogance.. and its the future that these idiots offer that concern me..

Catastrophes like the Boer War, the self centred scum like Cecil Rhodes (despised by just about everybody in Britain, including the Government and Royalty, for the damage they were doing, and who actually caused the Boer War), and the total disaster that was the Great War.

Once the Communists took over both Oxford and Cambridge, it was all over.

If the EU survives long enough (I doubt it), they will destroy that too.