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Old 23-03-2016, 04:54   #31
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pirate Re: Ice and gas availability in Europe

If you switch to using the red Spanish domestic bottles for convenience as many did back in the 80'/90's before Camping Gaz bottles became so easily available the only difference is yellow tipping to the flame instead of the clean blue flame and slightly lower BTU's.. this has nothing whatsoever to do with pressure.. its down to the air-gas mix needed for a clean hot burn.
If your lucky enough to have a good quality stove it will have an adjusting slot/screw (varies with makes) on the tube that seats in front of the jet leading to the burner and using this one can regulate the mix to get a cleaner burn..
Many people got their old 'Brit' bottles filled in Mallorca by taking them to Alcudia (Propane factory) and other places in mainland Portugal and Spain for example where it is carried out by folks trained for the job.. and have a variety of fittings for the job.. each bottle is filled to the pressure appropriate for the bottle.
As for the Enterprising Earn as you Cruise guy and the Gravity Fill..
That only fills the empty cylinder till the pressures have equalled.. around 2/3rds filled.. and its not as dangerous as one may assume.
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Old 23-03-2016, 10:24   #32
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Re: Ice and gas availability in Europe

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
If you switch to using the red Spanish domestic bottles for convenience as many did back in the 80'/90's before Camping Gaz bottles became so easily available the only difference is yellow tipping to the flame instead of the clean blue flame and slightly lower BTU's.. this has nothing whatsoever to do with pressure.. its down to the air-gas mix needed for a clean hot burn.
If your lucky enough to have a good quality stove it will have an adjusting slot/screw (varies with makes) on the tube that seats in front of the jet leading to the burner and using this one can regulate the mix to get a cleaner burn..
Many people got their old 'Brit' bottles filled in Mallorca by taking them to Alcudia (Propane factory) and other places in mainland Portugal and Spain for example where it is carried out by folks trained for the job.. and have a variety of fittings for the job.. each bottle is filled to the pressure appropriate for the bottle.
As for the Enterprising Earn as you Cruise guy and the Gravity Fill..
That only fills the empty cylinder till the pressures have equalled.. around 2/3rds filled.. and its not as dangerous as one may assume.
LPG bottles are not filled according to "pressure appropriate for the bottle". Propane and butane are liquid in our bottles. So they have to be filled by WEIGHT, not pressure. And if you overfill a bottle, then it's possible to burst it, something undesirable -- to say the least -- on a boat.

The pressure inside the bottle is determined by the vapor pressure of the gas. A butane bottle might not be able to handle the 10x higher vapor pressure of propane.

Gas is not something you want to make a mistake with on board a boat. Can you trust the backyard guy to do it safely?
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Old 23-03-2016, 11:03   #33
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Re: Ice and gas availability in Europe

There is a EN 12864 compliant regulator which is factory set to 37mb, designed for propane
GasBOAT 4007/ (4207) Marine UK Propane Gas Regulator
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Old 23-03-2016, 11:23   #34
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Re: Ice and gas availability in Europe

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Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
There is a EN 12864 compliant regulator which is factory set to 37mb, designed for propane
GasBOAT 4007/ (4207) Marine UK Propane Gas Regulator
Erm.... From your link..

NOTE, THIS REGULATOR IS NOW OUT OF STOCK AND IS TO BE REPLACED WITH NEW REGULATOR 4207 WHICH IS TO**BS EN 16129 M (2013),*CHANGES INCLUDE

now 30.0 mbar to be in compliance




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Old 23-03-2016, 11:25   #35
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Re: Ice and gas availability in Europe

I stand corrected.
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Old 23-03-2016, 12:03   #36
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pirate Re: Ice and gas availability in Europe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
LPG bottles are not filled according to "pressure appropriate for the bottle". Propane and butane are liquid in our bottles. So they have to be filled by WEIGHT, not pressure. And if you overfill a bottle, then it's possible to burst it, something undesirable -- to say the least -- on a boat.

The pressure inside the bottle is determined by the vapor pressure of the gas. A butane bottle might not be able to handle the 10x higher vapor pressure of propane.

Gas is not something you want to make a mistake with on board a boat. Can you trust the backyard guy to do it safely?
Guess I'm a backyard fitter then.. in spite of helping convert the UK to Natural Gas and installing Gas Central Heating in a lot of homes.. and doing Trace and Repair for British Gas..
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Old 23-03-2016, 12:08   #37
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Re: Ice and gas availability in Europe

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Guess I'm a backyard fitter then.. in spite of helping convert the UK to Natural Gas and installing Gas Central Heating in a lot of homes.. and doing Trace and Repair for British Gas..
Natural gas - lighter than air and a gas at ALL normal temps-- is a WHOLE different kettle of fish from LPG, heavier than air and stored as a liquid. Behaves differently, different techniques of handling, completely different risks.

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"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
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Old 23-03-2016, 12:17   #38
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pirate Re: Ice and gas availability in Europe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Natural gas - lighter than air and a gas at ALL normal temps-- is a WHOLE different kettle of fish from LPG, heavier than air and stored as a liquid. Behaves differently, different techniques of handling, completely different risks.

Sent from my D6633 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
I think you'll find that CORGI covers all installations including Motorhomes and Caravans..
You may consider me a moron by all means however.. its your prerogative..
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Old 23-03-2016, 13:32   #39
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Re: Ice and gas availability in Europe

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I think you'll find that CORGI covers all installations including Motorhomes and Caravans..
You may consider me a moron by all means however.. its your prerogative..
You, a moron? Don't be ridiculous. One of my most admired CF'ers


I'm just commenting on principles discussed here, not your particular level of skill, which I don't know, and which is surely far higher than mine, in any case.
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"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
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Old 01-04-2016, 04:50   #40
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Re: Ice and gas availability in Europe

Corgi's nice little earner by running a closed shop that you had to join to work on gas installations in the UK has been broken up. It's now Gas Safe, still a closed shop but huge fees that has upset a number of old time plumbers.

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You, a moron? Don't be ridiculous. One of my most admired CF'ers .
Quite, always love Phil's posts and his sense of humour, definitely worth pulling up a sand bag and reading
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Old 01-04-2016, 05:03   #41
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pirate Re: Ice and gas availability in Europe

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Corgi's nice little earner by running a closed shop that you had to join to work on gas installations in the UK has been broken up. It's now Gas Safe, still a closed shop but huge fees that has upset a number of old time plumbers.



Quite, always love Phil's posts and his sense of humour, definitely worth pulling up a sand bag and reading
One of the reasons I moved back onto the water and started regaining my seamanship abilities in the mid 80's.. it was going downhill even then with CORGI upping their membership fees and stupid regs.. but they argue that it makes for safer workers..
Personally I found a potential Life Sentence a great inducement to make sure my work was A1+.. yet to come across one of these 'Organisations' that actually serve any purpose other than to line a few pockets for nothing.

Shucks guys.. you've got me all Bashful now..
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Old 01-04-2016, 05:05   #42
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Re: Ice and gas availability in Europe

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To the OP.. forget your current bottle and get 2 Camping Gas canister's of the type with the screw in carry handle on top and appropriate regulator.. total cost should only be around 120euro.. then its just a case of exchanging the bottles at a supplier.. of which there are many.
Wot he said I could use Calor Gas 4.5kgs in the UK and its cheaper than Camping Gaz, but choose to stay with Gaz as its available everywhere on the Atlantic Coast. 2 cylinders will easily last us a summer.
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Old 01-04-2016, 05:35   #43
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Re: Ice and gas availability in Europe

Well, I've just stocked up for a while, 2 x 10Kg GRP gas light bottles from Homebase. Should last for a while, then a transfer kit and borrow/blag a local bottle wherever I happen to be when I need another refill.
72.99 for a new full bottle or 34.99 for a 10Kg refill.
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Old 01-04-2016, 05:57   #44
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pirate Re: Ice and gas availability in Europe

Quote:
Originally Posted by conachair View Post
Well, I've just stocked up for a while, 2 x 10Kg GRP gas light bottles from Homebase. Should last for a while, then a transfer kit and borrow/blag a local bottle wherever I happen to be when I need another refill.
72.99 for a new full bottle or 34.99 for a 10Kg refill.
A lot of gas powered cars in Spain and Portugal.. just outside Villamora, Algarve for example is a Garage where they'll do a top up.. just ask locally where ever you are and they'll put you right..
I've had locals drive me all over the place to help me out.. in Sicily, Sardinia, Greece, Spain and Portugal.. (and they've refused any payment) for all sorts of things from gaskets for hydraulics to gas and cashpoints.. there's beautiful people all over..
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