Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by weavis

Raw sewage bacterial outfall Myrtle Beach...... S.C.

NRDC ranked South Carolina 24th in Beachwater Quality (out of 30 states). 15% of samples exceeded EPA's new BAV standards for designated beach areas in 2013.

Not good.

Doesn't appear to be as civilized as some seem to believe. Maybe even a little "turd world."

[rwidman]

Nope. Those pipes are common and drain streets and parking lots and even areas behind berms. Not sewage. You see them all up and down the AICW as well. Let's not try to pass off photos for something that they are not to try and make a point.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Nope. Those pipes are common and drain streets and parking lots and even areas behind berms. Not sewage,

It does not take away the figures regarding S.C. does it? Its coming from somewhere.............

Contamination directly recorded from the coastal water ESPECIALLY OFF THE SWIMMING BEACHES.....if its not coming from the runoffs its coming from a a direct sewer outfall.

15% too much 'untreated' sewage and bacteria. Sewers breakdown and overflow into runoffs during high waterfall periods you know..... 15% is a lot given the length of the Coastline. Thats a lot of direct poop contact.

...... probably them pesky boats without holding tanks and the naughty fish pooping..



Contrast this with Barcelona beaches (and the East side of Spain) being awarded the #1 spot by National Geographic Magasine for the best beach and water quality........ Probably the diet makes for a better poop!


There are nine Barcelona Mediterranean beaches that border city for 4.5km. All Barcelona beaches have the EU blue flag of excellence awarded for water quality and services. Each beach has a different name, which you can see on the Barcelona beach map. In 2011 Barcelona was even named the best beach city in the world by the famous National Geographic magazine.

[PersephoneD]

Wow, what a discussion... Very entertaining! Thank you everyone. I think it's safe to say our passage plan will work around marinas with facilities...

[weavis]

Originally Posted by PersephoneD

Wow, what a discussion... Very entertaining! Thank you everyone. I think it's safe to say our passage plan will work around marinas with facilities...

Yes.. no matter where you are, watching a couple of floating percys go past you whilst doing the backstroke is not pleasant......

[PersephoneD]

Originally Posted by weavis

I have a seatoilet with no holding tank. I also have a chem toilet for marinas. My marina has great facilities so I use them but if caught short or somewhere else.. I have the chem. My clean out of the chem toilet due to infrequent use is about every 4-6 weeks and the matter has percolated nicely into a pourable slurry......



My colvic Watson has a holding tank........ I had to clean it recently.



That was something else. Febreeze is your friend.

My initial question was more about the procedural problems with authorities, as we normally would use the shore facilities (and are assuming to do the same in Spain). However this is a useful advice, Weavis, thank you (about PortaPotti for emergencies). Just looked them up, not expensive either, £80 for 20L tank.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by PersephoneD

My initial question was more about the procedural problems with authorities, as we normally would use the shore facilities (and are assuming to do the same in Spain). However this is a useful advice, Weavis, thank you (about PortaPotti for emergencies). Just looked them up, not expensive either, £80 for 20L tank.

Most boaters are not keen on chem toilets. They can slosh and if you ever have one upturn...... I keep mine stored so it cannot move, and also LESS water and chem in that recommended so if it does tilt, it needs to tilt further to spill. It shouldnt spill but........

Plus, If Im traveling, I usually empty the chem toilet and fill it again if staying in a berth where toilets are iffy..... Its just a backup. Be warned...... with kids on board.... you could be emptying every day

Use the green chem

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by weavis

Actually, I think you would be doing us all a favour Ron Widman if you stayed away from the Med. Leave us and the turds alone.

I'm not going to stay away as a favor to you or anyone. I have no desire to go there and plenty to see on my side of the ocean.

If you choose to come here, just be aware that there are laws for boat sanitary systems and they are enforced. Your boat can be boarded by armed officers and the sanitary system can be inspected. There are some pretty big fines for non-compliance.

[Prairie Chicken]

If you choose to come here, just be aware that there are laws for boat sanitary systems and they are enforced. Your boat can be boarded by armed officers and the sanitary system can be inspected. There are some pretty big fines for non-compliance.

Among many other reasons, that sounds like a good reason to stay out of your waters. Thanks for the warning. I'll continue to enjoy the Med.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by conachair

It's quite easy these days to do some research on your own..

"Some 48% of urban centres lack sewage treatment facilities ..."


United nations source.
UNEP / MAP - United Nations Environment Programme - Mediterranean Action Plan

Quote:
"on the more populated European coast, where almost all sailboats are, urban sewage is treated."


Source?

Sometimes I don't get it. You said:

Originally Posted by conachair

About 80% of the urban sewage produced goes into the med untreated.....

Then you try to justify that statement with information that contradicts it: the urban centers on the med without sewage treatment are 48% not 80%. That percentage includes not only the European coasts of the Med but the African coast where most of the urban centers without sewage treatment are.

Regarding the European coasts (were most sailboats are) to have a much smaller percentage of urban centers without sewage treatment it is pretty obvious: Who do you think that have more ecological care and more demanding laws on pollution: Spain, France, Italy, Croatia, Slovenia, Greece or Palestine, Libya, Morocco, Algeria Tunisia and Egypt?

EC countries have demanding common mandatory legislation regarding the treatment of sewage.

[conachair]

You asked for a source about 80% of sewage going into the med untreated. The source is there from the UN.

Where are your sources? Have you even been there? Seems extremely unlikely given your comments.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by conachair

You asked for a source about 80% of sewage going into the med untreated. The source is there from the UN.

Where are your sources? Have you even been there? Seems extremely unlikely given your comments.

From the beginning we were referring to black water and treatment of human excrement. Sewage is a generic term and refers not only to that but on the context it is assumed you are referring to black water.

The 80% you refer don't relate to that but to waste water that has nothing to do with black water:

"Some 48% of urban centres lack sewage treatment facilities and around 80% of wastewater is disposed of in the sea untreated..."

UNEP / MAP - United Nations Environment Programme - Mediterranean Action Plan

Regarding the treatment of waste water (that has not to do with black water) on the European coast of the Med (EC countries) the last EC report says:

"This 7th Report on the implementation of the Directive describes the progress made up to the end of 2009/2010. ....

2.1. Collecting systems

Most of the EU Member States collect their waste waters at very high levels with an average rate of compliance equal to 94% (up from 92%). Some 15 Member States even reach compliance of 100%. All Member States have either maintained or improved on previous results. ..

2.2. Secondary treatment

In 2009/2010, a total of 82% of the waste waters in the EU received secondary treatment complying with the provisions of the Directive, four percentage points up from the previous Report. Four Member States reached 100% compliance and another six Member States had levels of compliance of 97% and higher....

2.3. More stringent treatment

This type of treatment of waste waters, also known as tertiary treatment, complements the secondary treatment when needed and is mostly targeted at the elimination of nutrients to combat eutrophication or reduce bacteriological pollution that might affect human health (such as for drinking water zones or bathing waters)[16]. There was an overall compliance rate of 77%."

EUR-Lex - 52013DC0574 - EN - EUR-Lex

[boatman61]

Oh Boy.... its Google time again...
How about sticking to reality.. not some desk jockeys fantasy of the perfect world that will never be..

[conachair]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Oh Boy.... its Google time again...
How about sticking to reality.. not some desk jockeys fantasy of the perfect world that will never be..

Difference is we've been there. Boats have a poo now and again in an anchorage. Not ideal but mullet love it. What's the big deal, the med has much bigger pollution problems than that .

[Dauntlessny]

Originally Posted by Polux

Can you support that with facts? That seems to me an extraordinary claim. I believe the 80% may be possible on the North coast of Africa (and even so I have doubts regarding that number) but on the more populated European coast, where almost all sailboats are, urban sewage is treated.

More most coastal communities, urban waste is treated until it isn't.

Which means that in every big rain storm, the waste treatment facilities have no way to handle an extraordinary amount of water, therefore, it goes into the water totally untreated, though it may be grossly filtered.