Greek Tax coming?

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

And yes, how do you think a German feels when asked to pay this tax, after knowing how much of his or her tax euros went down the greek blackhole? Etc, etc.

So you think that the Germans will want tax credits when they holiday in Greece. Perhaps you think they will want everything they purchase VAT free? How about free public transport in Athens and not paying the road toll, after all the German tax payers have effectively paid for them?

No, the Germans will appreciate that the Greeks are trying to do things to balance their books and be frustrated about how poor they are at implementing and collecting the new taxes. The will also be frustrated that there will be inconsistencies between ports and of course will be potentially annoyed at the way there is a massive jump at 12m.

The Germans will not begrudge the Greek the right to raise a new tax.

Originally Posted by crankysailor

It is the duty of citizens (in this case, of Greece and the larger European project) to question and hold their governments accountable and not just say yes to any form of taxation or laws that might go against one of the very reason d’être of the EU: The free unimpeded movement of goods and its citizens across the European community.

It does not go against the EU laws if the tax affects the Greeks as well.

Again, by your logic, then Germany should not be able to collect tolls from trucks using the German autobahn system.

Given that the tax will be charged for the use of boats in greek waters, it effectively becomes a waterways toll.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

.......

Interestingly, someone in the thread mentioned that you are using infrastructures that were built with the money of the citizens. It is more the case that the infrastructure was paid for by citizens of western European countries, the very people that actually want to cruise there. You only have to go back far as the 80s and Greece wasn't even a developed nation (officially classed as 'developing') In most EU countries outside of the wealthiest, major/useful infrastructure is usually proceeded by a sign saying about it being paid for by some EU development fund other. Roads and airports in Spain, beautifully smooth tarmac in Slovenia, marinas in Greece etc..

I find that comment of very bad taste.

The fairness regarding tax is that they should reflect what you get. You should pay for nothing, without a reason.

The reason why you should pay some small tax on a foreign country regards your use of the country infrastructures that were paid by the state with citizens tax. Any outside help regarding that is irrelevant and it has to do with EC structural funds that exist also on the US.

Regarding this particular tax the way it is formulated makes no sense. If it is a luxury tax should reflect, as it was on the spirit of the law, the value of the boat not its size, that many times have nothing to do with its value.

Also, a luxury tax makes only sense inside a country and its citizens as a way to redistribute wealth and makes no sense at all in what regards foreign citizens.

It makes sense a tax for cruisers regarding the use of maritime infrastructures in Greece but that has not the due with this tax. A confusion, as usual in Greece.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

.
So yes, the economic realities of Europe are not the same as the US. Croatia might seem like a bargain compared to .. dunno.. the Caribbean or something, but would be exorbitant to the average Spanish cruiser. And yes, how do you think a German feels when asked to pay this tax, after knowing how much of his or her tax euros went down the greek blackhole? Etc, etc.
..
..

I guess you are not Spanish or then your assessment of the Spanish reality is very odd.

We are talking about the med and in what regards that the only comparison with Greece are the Balearic Islands, not only in beauty but also because it is the only place where you have a comparable number of sheltered coves and bays to anchor.

Of course not regarding all Greece that is hugely bigger, but regarding the same area. The problem is that the Balearic Islands are crowded, so crowded that it is difficult to find a place for the night and when you find is just on top of another boat that is like they anchor there these days.

They don't have the big number of ports you find on Greece where you pay 7 euros a night, only marinas where they will do you a big favor in finding you a place (they are full) charging you at least 70 euros, sometimes 200 for a night.

If you cruise on the med coast of Spain there are vast extensions without any proper anchorage and you will have to go to a marina and pay between 40 and 150 euro a night (for a 40ft boat).

So how is Spain cheaper?

[crankysailor]

Originally Posted by Polux

I guess you are not Spanish or then your assessment of the Spanish reality is very odd.

...

So how is Spain cheaper?

Bueno, digamos que se muy bien exactamente de lo que estoy hablando ;-)

A propósito.. the prices in Spain vary a lot depending on where you go. Granted sometimes it helps that one can negotiate as a local with el marinero ;-) but yeah it can be anything from 5€ to close to 40€ ..for a 32ft. It helps to know where to go and what to avoid.

Either way, my point was more aimed at attempting to make you guys understand that “Greece is a bargain” is a relative thing.. here in Spain it is always the talk amongst cruisers how expensive everything after Barcelona is

[Zven]

Originally Posted by Polux

The fairness regarding tax is that they should reflect what you get. You should pay for nothing, without a reason....
The reason why you should pay some small tax on a foreign country regards your use of the country infrastructures that were paid by the state with citizens tax...
Also, a luxury tax makes only sense inside a country and its citizens as a way to redistribute wealth and makes no sense at all in what regards foreign citizens.
It makes sense a tax for cruisers regarding the use of maritime infrastructures in Greece but that has not the due with this tax...

I see you are a bit of an idealist.
The thing about taxes are, they do not need to make sense. They do not need to be fair, or reflect any particular factor or calculation.
It is not like you are necessarily paying just for something you need or want, or paying according to the use of some resource.
Taxes don't work like that.
Taxes are about politicians extracting money in every way they can. They do this in order to spend on their favoured purposes.
Sometimes those purposes are supported by voters. Some times they make perfect sense.
Sometimes, everyone agrees the money is well spent.
Sometimes there is a connection between the taxes paid and services rendered.
Other times, not so much.