Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by indi4700

I think none of you people cared to reasearch who that guy is talking about corruption. His speech was such an oxymoron... He is corrupt to the bone. (http://www.thepressproject.gr/details_en.php?aid=62514) As for the privileges of the shipping sector is a very complex story that extends beyond Greece.
Please reaserch a bit about luxleaks before pointing fingers about corruption and then i invite everyone to a discussion for a european solution to what is a European problem [emoji2]


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I found nothing in the linked report alleging corruption. The report says he gets paid to advise large companies as a board member. Since when is getting paid as a board member called corruption? Board members are required as a part of good corporate governance and serve the investors. Without board members investors would have no one looking out for them. And his speaking fees are easy to understand given his clear speaking style.

[indi4700]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

I found nothing in the linked report alleging corruption. The report says he gets paid to advise large companies as a board member. Since when is getting paid as a board member called corruption? Board members are required as a part of good corporate governance and serve the investors. Without board members investors would have no one looking out for them. And his speaking fees are easy to understand given his clear speaking style.

Yeap i agree board members should do that. However, an MEP pushing for privatisations for the interest of the company he advises, in a democratic context, is corruption. If this is not obvious then i rest my case [emoji1]

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[indi4700]

Originally Posted by indi4700

Yeap i agree board members should do that. However, an MEP pushing for privatisations for the interest of the company he advises, in a democratic context, is corruption. If this is not obvious then i rest my case [emoji1]

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And just to not be misunderstood.. I am just saying that he is also part of the problem and should not point fingers. His criticism is just to cause impression, there are many things to criticize the greek administration/goverment he missed all of them.

And to all of the people passing generalised judgment on the greek people please consider we are not all the same and typical behaviours are just personal impressions...

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[dlymn]

Just smoothing down the feathers. Think about what it's like to sail into Turkey or Albania. Sure there are visa issues, but generally speaking these zones are fairly accessible and without great risks. I reckon a post crisis Greece will be pretty much steady as she goes. In some ways, areas like the Ionian are somewhat immune from the crises because of the money injected directly into the local economy by us sailors. Some areas depend on sailing for their income.
In Kalamos last year, we were running low on cash and, of course there's no ATM. George. the self appointed harbormaster and restaurant owner offered this solution. "Come to my taverna. Eat what you like. Pay me next year!"
Now that is a culture I can easily learn to love (and have)

[hoppy]

Just spoke to the guy in the store where I ordered an Harken roller from before the latest episode of this greek tragedy started. The unit is in Greece but stuck in Greek customs.

Allegedly the only way it's been possible to clear anything through customs this past week has been to roll up with cash. Firstly, that a government agency only accepts cash rather than electronic money looks bad for confidence for the Greek peoples, secondly it just sounds like an excellent opportunity for the staff in the customs offices to ensure they have a "salary".

In the past week I've saved money as many places are very happy to just accept cash at a 23% discounted rate.

[hoppy]

It's kind of funny or perhaps sad that after calling for a referendum on whether to accept the terms with a significant majority voting NO, the Greek proposals to the creditors is pretty much accepting what they said no to.

The most significant change is that Yanis Varoufakis is gone. Given that he couldn't be bothers doing what he's paid to do, sit in parliament and vote on the new package, tells me at least that he was the main stumbling block in accepting the creditors terms.

Why didn't Tsipras just get him to resign before the original deadline. If he was the real stumbling block, then I would imagine that the creditors would have been so happy to see him out of the picture that they might have given Greece to come back with a better proposal.

[Sindbad]

Originally Posted by hoppy

In the past week I've saved money as many places are very happy to just accept cash at a 23% discounted rate.

23 % is the VAT rate: I would call this tax evasion

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by Sindbad

23 % is the VAT rate: I would call this tax evasion

Yes, obviously....

Given the situation they Government has put businesses in, it's fair enough.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by NornaBiron

Personally I think the Greeks were right to vote no. The austerity measures are hitting the poorest people hardest with no sign of any light at the end of the tunnel.

At least this way there is a chance of a more realistic deal being discussed.

You are a poet

Money lending and interests has to do with trust and warranties. Not very different from a loan from a bank to a citizen, only at another scale.

The referendum lowered so much the confidence of the European leaders on Tsipras that now he is offering a deal worse to the Greek (with more austerity) than the one that was rejected by the population (with several MP voting against) and even so it will not be accepted, as it is, by the European leaders, not because of its substance but because they don't trust Tsipras to stand by it, I mean after having the money.....

and I think they have some reasons for distrusting Tsipras.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by hoppy

It's kind of funny or perhaps sad that after calling for a referendum on whether to accept the terms with a significant majority voting NO, the Greek proposals to the creditors is pretty much accepting what they said no to.

...

Yes, with only a difference: Now the creditors don't accept that offer and the distrust is so big that some countries had already said that will vote against a new bailout. Greeks have been promising reforms and cuts that never happen according to the plan and a new bailout will be viewed by some as a way to continue with the current standing: always asking for more money that they cannot pay instead of solving their balance problem.

Germany has a plan for suspending the Euro for 5 years to give them time to sort the problem devaluating the currency instead of cutting salaries, pensions and increasing taxes. As an alternative proposal a loan with banking warranties that will be used to pay to creditors if the country could not.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...-countrys-fate

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by Polux

Yes, with only a difference: Now the creditors don't accept that offer and the distrust is so big that some countries had already said that will vote against a new bailout. Greeks have been promising reforms and cuts that never happen according to the plan and a new bailout will be viewed by some as a way to continue with the current standing: always asking for more money that they cannot pay instead of solving their balance problem.

Germany has a plan for suspending the Euro for 5 years to give them time to sort the problem devaluating the currency instead of cutting salaries, pensions and increasing taxes. As an alternative proposal a loan with banking warranties that will be used to pay to creditors if the country could not.

Greek debt crisis: Eurozone finance ministers fail to reach agreement - as it happened | Business | The Guardian

It does seem like many are heeding the old saying

"beware of greeks bearing gifts"

[weavis]

The working mans guide to to get out of Debt quickly.

It is a slow day in a little Greek Village. The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.

On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night.

The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.

The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer.

The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel.

The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna.

The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit.

The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note.

The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town.

No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how to pay off the Eurozone debts.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by weavis

The working mans guide to to get out of Debt quickly.

It is a slow day in a little Greek Village. The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.

On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night.

The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.

The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer.

The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel.

The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna.

The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit.

The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note.

The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town.

No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how to pay off the Eurozone debts.

That's what the German tourist thought too, but problem is that he's already laid down his 100 Euro note on that same counter a couple of times, but by the time he asks for it back, it's nowhere to be found and the hotel owner says he's unable to even make payments on it, but incredibly, he says that he'd like it if the tourist would give him yet another 100 Euro's, but says his employees have let him know that he's not allowed to accept any conditions attached because that would violate their sense of pride and cause them too much austerity that of course they'd prefer to avoid. After all, who likes austerity, especially when you've fallen into the habit of spending that rich German tourists money and grown to enjoy the lifestyle it affords you very much? So, please just lay down yet another 100 Euros, go on your way, and we'll be in touch when we need another infusion of cash. The rich German tourist may be a slow learner but he's beginning to notice a trend and to think he'd be better off to try another hotel...

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

Unfortunately today going to a College or University does not equate to education. Minds are not being developed but rather creating robots that can not think freely or perform basic tasks of logic. Having said that you do have some good schools and places of higher education teaching worthwhile courses but on the whole this is not the case.



Now if they put trade schools in areas where there is 30% to 50% unemployment and teach the uneducated masses some worthwhile useful skills and trades.

In Switzerland high school ends at 15. Half the kids then become apprentices somewhere. The other half continues on in higher education. This is the opposite of the way the U.S. System seems to encourage postponing growing up till you're in your early twenties.
By all measures the country seams to be doing splendidly...



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[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by weavis

Also do not forget that Germany received unconditional aid from the USA and debt relief in the Marshall Plan, and yet will not offer debt relief to Greece.

Don't forget that in the case of post war Germany "unconditional" meant that it was the Germans that didn't get to impose any conditions...

And stop always pointing at Germany. Except for France and Cyprus every single EU country is of the opinion that Greece should first show it can really reform before more money comes. At the moment the biggest blockage isn't coming from Germany. It's Finland. There's even talk of Finland leaving the Euro if Greece doesn't. I could see Germany follow them...
In the Nordic countries (you know, these shining beacons of anti capitalism...) the public opinion is 3/4 against the Greeks.


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