Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

The irony of your statment regarding higher education! I belive president Obama pitched his two free years of community college for "responsible" citizens today...

And you know what? I believe that's far too miserly. All education should be free. Or at least should not depend on the students' or their parents' ability to pay for one. Just like we did with the roads, police and fire, defense, etc. I'd much rather pay for someone's education than for their welfare or prison upkeep. And that's really the only choice we have.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Hah, that everyone's favorite differentiation. But in reality there is no difference who the debtor is borrowing from. He's still a debtor. More like a drunk sailor with a money printing press, in the case of US, which IMO is even worse than "the Greeks bearing bonds" so to speak.

Agree with the gist of your last paragraph except in the case of Greece they are not the "40 year old son" but "80 year old parent" who is now made to work for his dinner. Greek civilization has been around far longer than Northern European one. And their 2,000+ year old longevity makes me wonder which civilization's approach to life is the correct one.

It is the 80 year olds own fault for his desire to have his cake and eat it too..Germans are a great example of how parents should live their lives ie. for their childrens future!!

[onestepcsy37]

Originally Posted by weavis

In my experience, a nation comprises of lots of nice people wanting an ordinary life and a select few who manage to screw that up for them in their pursuit of money and power and self interest.

Thanks for reminding us, weavis. Wherever we have traveled in the world we have nearly always met ordinary people just as you describe.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

And you know what? I believe that's far too miserly. All education should be free. Or at least should not depend on the students' or their parents' ability to pay for one. Just like we did with the roads, police and fire, defense, etc. I'd much rather pay for someone's education than for their welfare or prison upkeep. And that's really the only choice we have.

All education should be free!! Thats what all good communist thought too..I know a russian fellow with 2 damn doctorial degrees and he works as a taxi driver..Hell everything should be free and then even the dregs of society will have a chance to be ruler of our lives,no thanks I say reward the hard working people and let the losers or the soft hearted take care of the losers..It sure is sad that people have to suffer but if they wont pull their pants up and at least act like they have a little pride then i have no respect for them and they deserve what they get..

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

It is the 80 year olds own fault for his desire to have his cake and eat it too..Germans are a great example of how parents should live their lives ie. for their childrens future!!

Funny but for the first 40-50 years of the 20th century those German "parents" were making sure other nations were to be subservient to them at best and dead at worst. And now they figured out a more humane way to do it.

The Germans are so great and farsighted that they stopped producing enough children to take care of them in their old age and had to resort to massive immigration in the past 40 years to make up the deficiency. And these immigrants are now wreaking havoc with their country. I don't see anything in their lifesytle to emulate - work hard, have fewer and fewer children and die sitting on the pile of money which will be used up by the ungrateful and resentful immigrants-servants. At least the Greeks get to enjoy their life while they're here on this Earth.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Funny but for the first 40-50 years of the 20th century those German "parents" were making sure other nations were to be subservient to them at best and dead at worst. And now they figured out a more humane way to do it.

The Germans are so great that they stopped producing enough children to take care of them in their old agge and had to resort to massive immigration in the past 40 years to make up the deficiency. I don't see anything in their lifesytle to emulate - work hard, have fewer and fewer children and die sitting on the pile of money. At least the Greeks get to enjoy their life while they're here on this Earth.

Yea your right ,to hell with the childrens life whats more important is my getting my cake and keeping all of it ,oh I might share some with some furriner on a fancy boat(might get something out of them)but the kids ,let them fend for themselves..Do it in the butt ! That way you dont have to worry about young ones..

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

All education should be free!! Thats what all good communist thought too..I know a russian fellow with 2 damn doctorial degrees and he works as a taxi driver..Hell everything should be free and then even the dregs of society will have a chance to be ruler of our lives,no thanks I say reward the hard working people and let the losers or the soft hearted take care of the losers..It sure is sad that people have to suffer but if they wont pull their pants up and at least act like they have a little pride then i have no respect for them and they deserve what they get..

So why not make all roads private? While you're at it make fire and police departments privatized as well. Did not pay your quaterly tax bill? You ain't getting any response from them. Oh, and make the country's defense a private affair as well. You are so short sighted that you'd rather pay $50K a year to keep someone in jail than spend $5-10-15K a year educating them.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

So why not make all roads private? While you're at it make fire and police departments privatized as well. Did not pay your quaterly tax bill? You ain't getting any response from them. Oh, and make the country's defense a private affair as well. You are so short sighted that you'd rather pay $50K a year to keep someone in jail than spend $5-10-15K a year educating them.

Not at all, but 50 years of communism showed what over educating everyone gets you,a failed state!! Whats wrong with proving that you are worthy of a service or higher education ? Whats wrong with hard work and reward? Im sick of bailing my lazy ass friends out of trouble and then when I need help where do I turn, not to them by god? I belive in social works when it helps the earth not crooks that keep repeating their offenses knowing there is a sucker just waiting to bale them out..Or maybe you are correct, so why dont you give them everthing you have and if it looks like it works maybe I will too..

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

And you know what? I believe that's far too miserly. All education should be free. Or at least should not depend on the students' or their parents' ability to pay for one. Just like we did with the roads, police and fire, defense, etc. I'd much rather pay for someone's education than for their welfare or prison upkeep. And that's really the only choice we have.

Unfortunately today going to a College or University does not equate to education. Minds are not being developed but rather creating robots that can not think freely or perform basic tasks of logic. Having said that you do have some good schools and places of higher education teaching worthwhile courses but on the whole this is not the case.

Now if they put trade schools in areas where there is 30% to 50% unemployment and teach the uneducated masses some worthwhile useful skills and trades.

Then you have to implement economic growth policy's that encourage new business entrepreneurship and business expansion. Something that a socialist community organizer has no knowledge or desire for.

[wooden head]

Who gets to decide who gets what education? The US education problem is too many people mortgaged their future for a useless degree. The loans seem as free money to a teenager, they overpaid for a crappy education from a prestigious university without figuring out the only jobs in their field are teaching more kids the same useless classes. In the meantime technical and trade jobs go unfilled because no one is trained in the fields that are hiring.

[bill352]

Originally Posted by weavis

Surely the best course of action is to take a deep breath, sit back and relax and let the people who might know the real reasons work it out for themselves.

Whatever happens will be at the whims and wishes of the people powerful enough to implement their own agenda, and we will be informed in due course what it was, or perhaps never.

All the muck slinging at a nation is getting wearisome. In my experience, a nation comprises of lots of nice people wanting an ordinary life and a select few who manage to screw that up for them in their pursuit of money and power and self interest.

Well, I never thought that the way the world works could be summed up in a couple of paragraphs, but obviously I was wrong. Well put!

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

Unfortunately today going to a College or University does not equate to education. Minds are not being developed but rather creating robots that can not think freely or perform basic tasks of logic. Having said that you do have some good schools and places of higher education teaching worthwhile courses but on the whole this is not the case.

Now if they put trade schools in areas where there is 30% to 50% unemployment and teach the uneducated masses some worthwhile useful skills and trades.

Then you have to implement economic growth policy's that encourage new business entrepreneurship and business expansion. Something that a socialist community organizer has no knowledge or desire for.

Totally agree! When I say "education" of course I don't mean the left wing PC dribble which today passes for "education". But I also don't want the right wing Bible Belt "300 years behind the times" dribble either. Trade schools would be an excellent start and would provide most of today's "college graduates" with real life work opportunities. But unfortunately these days everyone wants to be a "marketing director" or a "stock market analyst" and very few if any aspire to be good and competent electricians, plumbers, mechanics, etc.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Totally agree! When I say "education" of course I don't mean the left wing PC dribble which today passes for "education". But I also don't want the right wing Bible Belt "300 years behind the times" dribble either. Trade schools would be an excellent start and would provide most of today's "college graduates" with real life work opportunities. But unfortunately these days everyone wants to be a "marketing director" or a "stock market analyst" and very few if any aspire to be good and competent electricians, plumbers, mechanics, etc.

I agree. Its funny how many plumbers are making a lot more than the average university grad.

[hoppy]

OK, stop the US discussions. We know you love hearing the sounds of your own voice but take it elsewhere

EVERYONE in Europe and especially Greece should listen to this speech by the former Belgium PM, Guy Verhofstadt.

'End privilege of ship owners, military and church' - Guy Verhofstadt - BBC News

[bill352]

Originally Posted by hoppy

OK, stop the US discussions. We know you love hearing the sounds of your own voice but take it elsewhere

EVERYONE in Europe and especially Greece should listen to this speech by the former Belgium PM, Guy Verhofstadt.

'End privilege of ship owners, military and church' - Guy Verhofstadt - BBC News

Excellent speech. But did you see the look on Tsipras's face when Verhofstadt talked about ending privilege? Ain't gonna happen.