Greece votes "NO" - impact on cruisers

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by weavis

Getting off the boat, Greek coffee, a shot of Brandy and Baklava.

Back when I was a conscript in the Ottoman Army around 1917 or there-abouts I would have friendly(not) arguments with my Greek counter part about whom actually invented Baklava, the Turks or the Greeks...Then this Armenian guy puts in his 2 cents worth, not good to say the least...

[tropicalescape]

The worst thing that could happen with a Greek exit from the Euro would be a shift to Russia and/ or worse the fat cornacopia that is the Balkins..Greece could try to fast track a split of Macedonia that could reignite Albainian feelings of a greater Albainia which we all know would not be good as that sets off other wildcard resentments that would turn the Med. into a nightmare for crusiers and navys alike..If they did exit i would hope that there would be so much more that is western that would keep them in NATOs sphere of influence ....

[Barra]

An update from the more remote islands (Astipalia, Little Cyclades) -

Tourist numbers in these parts are more driven by locals and numbers are way down due to cash shortages, no jobs etc. ie taverna owners are saying daily numbers are around 1/3 of normal in these parts.

Typical greek hospitality being what it is they are even more welcoming and appreciative of custom (eg lots of free wine, extra seafood, shots etc till you risk falling off your boat on return!).

We still dont see anything remotely resembling a food shortage or riots that our sensationalist media so loves these days

So far still very very good

[weavis]

Well.

If the Prime Minister of Greece can convince his Parliament that they have to sell off the family silver, the deal is done to stay in the EU, get a loan and lose their independence forever.

On the horizon, this Greek government is done, an election will loom, The Greek populace will probably riot and wine will rise in cost.

On the other hand, if their ministers do not pass the agreement, This Greek government is done, an election will loom. The Greek populace will probably riot and wine will rise in cost.

Get your Baklavas while you can.

I have had both Greek and Turkish versions and cannot and will not decide which is best. They are both fabulous.

[terra57]

The Greeks did not riot during the referendum. Rioting will not stave off hunger. In the Ionian there is plenty of food because they grow it. In Athens this will be a problem. The EU is prepared to keep the people fed. Humanitarian aid has already been discussed.
Greece is the home of democracy and a deeply religious country. I can't see them going with the Ruskies. I think the EU realizes now that startegically Greece is too important to toss away.
I think the Greeks will show us all how a civilized land resolves its problems. As gracious and polite as the Greeks are, I would find it hard to see them rioting. It does not serve the greater good.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by terra57

The Greeks did not riot during the referendum. Rioting will not stave off hunger.

It's the Anarchists who initiate riots in Greece and the referendum was something they would have been happy with as long as it's a NO. If there is a deal, they'll be out on the streets having a cocktail party outside EU institutions and German companies. It doesn't matter if it won't achieve anything.


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[hoppy]

It seems that a deal has been agreed....

One thing mentioned was this

"EU demands Sunday shopping'
Posted at 10:37
One intriguing detail with the EU statement: as part of market reforms designed to boost the economy, Greece will have to bring in Sunday trading hours."

I wish the EU made this an EU wide thing. All too many times I've been in Germany either needing something or just bored killing time on a Sunday and nothing is open.


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[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by weavis

Well.



If the Prime Minister of Greece can convince his Parliament that they have to sell off the family silver, the deal is done to stay in the EU, get a loan and lose their independence forever.

If they had wanted to keep their independence they shouldn't have joined the EU...



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[keseyken]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

If they had wanted to keep their independence they shouldn't have joined the EU...

That's a point of view. Independence, like freedom, is a somewhat nebulous concept. One can be perfectly independent while being part of a group which confers various benefits - not least of which is that the countries which are, for instance, part of the EU are more likely to be somewhat co-operative than to resort to war. I'll take that anyday.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by keseyken

That's a point of view. Independence, like freedom, is a somewhat nebulous concept. One can be perfectly independent while being part of a group which confers various benefits - not least of which is that the countries which are, for instance, part of the EU are more likely to be somewhat co-operative than to resort to war. I'll take that anyday.

Being part of a group also means adhearing to that groups bylaws or rules not just taking the benifits or making choices that suit you and then caring on with business as usual..You cant have your cake and eat it too, there are other people at the party...this to is a point of view that is considered univer-silly among most honest nations..

[yeloya]

Three remarks;

-as usual, we are drifting from the topic,
-the statements like "I have been in island X, everything was as usual" or I have been in island Y, the situation was terrible" has not much relevance. The islands are in general and have always been better than the mainland. Secondly, every island have its own infastructure, supply chain, etc which might be very different than the next one.
-finally, the baklava is not greek for sure as for many other food they claim is. Baklava is probably is not turkish either, but was brought in somewhere from Lebanon or Syria when these areas were under the control of Ottoman Empire and taken later to Greece . (Remember Greece has been under Ottoman Empire control for more than 400 years)

Back to subject, Greece is a beatiful crusing area and will stay so whatever happens to them. The rest is their policy, macroeconomy, their behaviour, perceptions that we can discuss for another 1000 postings.. Their attitudes, morale and the prices will likely to change (some in a good, some in a bad way..) as a matter of what will happen to them but Greece will certainly remain as one of the best destinations in the Med for cruisers..

Cheers

Yeloya

[weavis]

Originally Posted by yeloya

Three remarks;

-as usual, we are drifting from the topic,
-the statements like "I have been in island X, everything was as usual" or I have been in island Y, the situation was terrible" has not much relevance. The islands are in general and have always been better than the mainland. Secondly, every island have its own infastructure, supply chain, etc which might be very different than the next one.
-finally, the baklava is not greek for sure as for many other food they claim is. Baklava is probably is not turkish either, but was brought in somewhere from Lebanon or Syria when these areas were under the control of Ottoman Empire and taken later to Greece . (Remember Greece has been under Ottoman Empire control for more than 400 years)

Back to subject, Greece is a beatiful crusing area and will stay so whatever happens to them. The rest is their policy, macroeconomy, their behaviour, perceptions that we can discuss for another 1000 postings.. Their attitudes, morale and the prices will likely to change (some in a good, some in a bad way..) as a matter of what will happen to them but Greece will certainly remain as one of the best destinations in the Med for cruisers..

Cheers

Yeloya

It actually has its origins in Roman cuisine. Then moved through cultures to sublime perfection...........

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by hoppy

I wish the EU made this an EU wide thing. All too many times I've been in Germany either needing something or just bored killing time on a Sunday and nothing is open. Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Even worse is retail closing at 12 o'clock every 4th Saturday what is that all about.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Even worse is retail closing at 12 o'clock every 4th Saturday what is that all about.

Its just to keep you guessing.

I lived in Indiana for a while. Each township has its own rules. Right on a county line opposite each other were 2 taverns. On a Sunday, one had to close due to law and the other took more money on that day than it took all week.

Weird.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by weavis

Remind me again of the benefits of being in the EU?

Loaned money and then in a debt cycle forever.

Lower pensions-does not change
Higher retirement age-does not change
Increasing Vat (does not go down)
More taxes-more taxes
Centralised offshore governance
Austerity That continues because if it does not, then the next bills cannot be met.

The benefits are many and that's why almost all European countries entered voluntarily on the EC. Too much to tell but the evidence that almost all sees advantages in being on the EC is by itself an answer to your question.


Those things you mention have nothing to do with being on the EC but with bad management and living with a deficit. Sooner or later will hit all western countries since they are all waiting for a sustainable growing to overcome deficit and that is not going to happen. Economically weaker countries were hit first but the turn to make reforms, finish with the deficit and start paying the debt will come to all.

Regarding Portugal or Ireland in what regards economic trouble both countries were at the verge of default without possibility of getting money on the market (the interests were about 10%). EC provided a bailout lending money at about 3% and less and assisted in planning reforms for sustainability.

Portugal and Ireland are now living without assistance and managing their finances. If Portugal and Ireland were not in the EC and were not helped they would have defaulted like Argentina with much dire consequences.

To Greece was offered the same deal for the same problem, not one time but two, with an haircut on the debt by the middle and they need another bail out. They are not solving their problems making reforms not even with cheaper money and haircuts on debts.

In the end is not dificult to understand: The state of a country cannot spend more money than what it has and if so it has to cut on expenses not only to get a balance but to have money to pay the debts he has made. There are many ways of managing this but it seems Greeks are unable or don't want to make the needed changes.