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Old 28-12-2018, 16:20   #31
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Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

Cheerfull stuff eh?
Personally, I would take the cat. As the folk with money get older, mono hulls become less attractive. Cats are easier for geriatric guests, the grandkids. The missus prefers minimum heeling etc.
The usual caveats apply; higher marina costs and the reduced ability to carry the accumulating junk. Twice the amount of engine maintenance.
My experience in the tropics of Australia is that although cats are generally much more expensive, they do tend to hold their value better.

Have you considered living ashore at Tangiers but chartering for your Med. holidays? Seems simpler. It means no time consuming boat maintenance and you can choose the charter boat for the circumstances e.g. fly to the pick up, choose a prepared boat to suit the number of guests and experience of your "crew". You may be able to do a "charter" out of Tangier or "borrow" a local boat.
Hang around the marina and get some local knowledge. Brush up on sailing with a local. Keep an eye out for local bargains.
What are the marina fees like for a live aboard catamaran? What would be your insurance and maintenance costs?

Whatever happens, just be aware that selling any boat is not fun. Time consuming, brokers fees etc.
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Old 28-12-2018, 19:21   #32
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Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

I think for that money you would get a monohull that is perceived as better quality to start and therefore would hold that value better. The older cat from the charter fleet might not look so appealing as a 14 year old boat.
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Old 28-12-2018, 19:37   #33
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Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

So far it appears debatable for benefit regarding costs. But if I (and wife) were living aboard at marina, the cat certainly has more space.
If you buy monohull and end up with cabin fever, then costs go up . With a cat, this risks is less.
But do homework regarding availability of dock space/costs for each.
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Old 28-12-2018, 22:01   #34
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Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Not so much market saturation, but the market for used boats is dead. The stock markets worldwide going into what will probably be a longish bear market and/or correction in 2019, and rising interest rates that will effect the US and worldwide housing markets.

People are worried about this stuff... not about buying a boat. Chartering for most seems to be the safer economic choice with no long term commitment of ownership.
Agreed. A tightening of credit around the world will play a bigger role regarding future values of "stuff" than mono or cat.

Also we may see more toys such as yachts come on the market due to people needing cash to support margin calls or other problems associated with asset prices deflating.
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Old 28-12-2018, 22:39   #35
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Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Not so much market saturation, but the market for used boats is dead. The stock markets worldwide going into what will probably be a longish bear market and/or correction in 2019, and rising interest rates that will effect the US and worldwide housing markets.

People are worried about this stuff... not about buying a boat. Chartering for most seems to be the safer economic choice with no long term commitment of ownership.
Ah yes quite right. People are skittish. I tend to look at longer term when considering investment money. Mostly I wish I had a pile of cash to invest now.
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Old 29-12-2018, 05:16   #36
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Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

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Originally Posted by daletournier View Post
Agreed. A tightening of credit around the world will play a bigger role regarding future values of "stuff" than mono or cat.

Also we may see more toys such as yachts come on the market due to people needing cash to support margin calls or other problems associated with asset prices deflating.
True, all this economic uncertaintly could adversely affect boat sales and thus prices.

It certainly been a wild week in the USA markets. I did have a little cash to play with so bought some index funds.
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Old 29-12-2018, 05:48   #37
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pirate Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

Before buying a boat to keep in Tangiers I would look at the house rental market in Tangiers and measure these costs against the costs of keeping a boat in the marina.
Also you will likely need to do some work to the boat to make it a liveaboard.. heating, air con, etc..
Another thing to consider is it can take upto 2yrs to sell a boat during which time you have marina/yard bills, boat deteriorating from neglect...
If you decide on a boat plan to take it to at least the Caribe where 220/40 is common and sell her there where at least you may be able to get her into one of the 2nd line charter fleets so she pays her way, you get some vacations on her till she sells.
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Old 30-12-2018, 00:30   #38
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Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

Interesting replies.
The rules are the same mono or cat. Cats are just more money per ft. Do your research, find a motivated seller, negotiate the best price with a few other comparable boats. Enjoy your time with the boat, but be careful what expenses you put into it as you may not get a return on them. Some markets, like the Med are cheaper than others due to market saturation. So play that to your advantage and sell it on the east coast when you're done.
Make her aesthetically perfect and reap the benefits, but don't expect a profit.
I suggest buying a boat 8 yrs old as opposed to 4 as the depreciation has already happened.
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Old 31-12-2018, 14:22   #39
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Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

I think the factors that will affect your resale are:
- What condition will the boat be in when you sell?
- How well was it maintained?
- What is the age of the boat when you sell? Is it due for some major refit?
- Where are you selling it? Can have a big impact.
- Is the builder known? Better a known builder than an unknown.
- How well outfitted is it?
- How is the general market for boats? An economic downturn is a terrible time to sell, a great time to buy.
- Will you be competing with similar charter boats? Charter boats are almost always the cheapest boats out there, and you will be competing with them

Any of these factors can have a large impact on resell - greater than the typical 4-5% depreciation that occurs roughly 5+ years into the life of a boat.

I think if you are only planning on using as a "home" and want to maximize that experience, you should get a cat that's in good shape and priced "right". If you want something that goes beyond a "home" then it depends on where you want to sail and the experience you want from it. We lived 3 years on a Leopard 40 in the Bahamas/East Coast, but now we're buying a 42' monohull for Spanish/French cruising. I don't really like how a cat sails, but love how a cat anchors. I love how a monohull sails, but I know the anchoring is going to be a bigger compromise.

To each their own.
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Old 04-01-2019, 20:33   #40
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Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

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Originally Posted by billgewater View Post
Cheerfull stuff eh?
Have you considered living ashore at Tangiers but chartering for your Med. holidays? Seems simpler. It means no time consuming boat maintenance and you can choose the charter boat for the circumstances e.g. fly to the pick up, choose a prepared boat to suit the number of guests and experience of your "crew".
+1

Surprised this option didn't come up sooner in the thread.

If only there for two years, what and when will 'holiday time' be taken?

Might not be good sailing time/weather out of Tangier, but superb in the Cyclades, or Croatia, where there are numerous charter boat companies.

Also, Tangier is a long way from anwhere except Morocco and Spain. Quicker to fly there, spend more time on the charter boat soaking up "the vibe" in the local area, rather than getting beat up in a Mistral or Melteme trying to get "there" in the first place.

Also, chartering option provides the opportunity to charter *wherever* - so cross the ditch to the BVIs for example. Why limit your "sailing holidays" to the bits of the Med you can comfortable reach from Tangier in a probably limited holiday period..??

Hurricane in the Carib during holiday time? Charter in Croatia. Storm season in the Greek Islands? Go to the Baltic instead.

If, after a couple of charters, you *then* decide that you do actually want to liveaboard and sail out of Tangier, by all means look around for a boat that will suit what you then know your 'lifestyle' will require.

Only you can decide that for yourself, so charter both mono and multi and see for yourself which works for you and the other half.
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Old 06-01-2019, 11:41   #41
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Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

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Originally Posted by danielamartindm View Post
A boat is not an investment, it's a depreciating asset; I think the same factors of depreciation apply to both monos and multis.
When it’s time to sell, you’re looking at a 14 year old boat vs an 8 year old boat. I think that makes a difference in attracting a buyer. What that difference may be will be in the eyes of the potential buyer.

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Old 07-01-2019, 12:08   #42
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Re: Cat or Mono for holding value

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In Morrocco do you have any experience of buying property in North Africa?
OP here. This has turned into a much larger conversation than the original question, but has made for a great read.

An ex-pat can most certainly purchase a home in Morocco. However, should he then sell that property, he can never legally take the money out of the country. Those dirhams would sit in a Moroccan bank forever (or until used to purchase something else there). People buying property there plan to own it for their lifetime or are just willing to walk away from that equity.

However, if one chose to sail his home into a Moroccan port and live there for a few years, he could then sail his home (and equity) right back out again. Granted, it has devaluated in that time, but hopefully no more than any other similar boat in the Med.

This is a key consideration in my planning here. While a boat is clearly not a good investment universally, it's a much better investment than purchasing or renting property in Morocco. In the real estate buy or rent scenarios, you put $ in and never get it out again. And, of course, dockage costs are a fraction of European or popular American ports. Thus the idea of a mono/cat liveaboard scenario. Thanks again for all the comments.
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