Buying a boat in Croatia

[David B]

Originally Posted by CAPTAINRONBVI

ROBBINS FAMILY

MY VESSEL IS REGISTERED IN THE U S STATE OF DELAWARE AND FLYING A U S FLAG. UNDER EUROPEAN REGULATIONS THE VAT HAS NEVER BEEN PAID ON THIS VESSEL. AFTER THE SAIL WAS CONSUMMATED VESSEL REGISTERED, I TOOK AN OVERNIGHT CRUISE 12 KM OFFSHORE FROM SPLIT AND RETURNED TO THE ISLAND VIS, CROATIA THE NEXT DAY.

THAT QUALIFIED UNDER LAW, AS LEAVING THE EU TERRITORY AND THEREFORE NOT REQUIRED TO PAY VAT.

THE BEST ADVISE I CAN GIVE IS:

"DON'T WORRY - BE HAPPY!"

CIAO

CAPTAIN RON

Regarding re-setting the 18 month EU VAT clock, do you have confirmation that just leaving the EU is enough?

An awful lot of yachts are entering non-EU countries to have their papers stamped to prove they have been out of the EU (we are advised as well as the entry documents, make sure you can also show marina and/or fuel receipts).

So just going for a sail, while perhaps technically correct, may get one into trouble without good evidence. Also there is the 'goodwill' side of it. I would be nervous about just coming into port for stamping of papers and then leaving immediately. We have always stayed at least a week to: 1. see the place (ended up staying two years in Tunisia - that certainly re-set the clock !), and 2. to show good intent. May be over cautious, but we have seen and experienced a good number of boardings and paper checking. Some are great, others not so friendly

[dlymn]

Sailing a few miles offshore is not sufficient to reset the 18 month clock. you must have evidence that you entered another country. You need documents from customs to prove entry and exit. Remember that this rule is in place originally to allow foreign owned boats to transit through EU water on their way to foreign shores. It was not expected that some foreign boats actually wanted to stay relatively permanently. That is why you have to go to a foreign country. Most people talk about going for a day and then come back If you know anything about the random officiousness of greek customs for example, you would understand that some officers might call your bluff and accuse you of not transiting through the EU but trying to use the one day visit to say Albabie as a technical loophole and will refuse to admit you or worse. So it's best to create the impression that you are moving on to foreign lands.
There is of course the alternative position where customs officers ignore the rule altogether; a euro spent (by you) is a euro earned ( by the country you visit)

[David B]

Originally Posted by dlymn

Sailing a few miles offshore is not sufficient to reset the 18 month clock. you must have evidence that you entered another country. You need documents from customs to prove entry and exit. Remember that this rule is in place originally to allow foreign owned boats to transit through EU water on their way to foreign shores. It was not expected that some foreign boats actually wanted to stay relatively permanently. That is why you have to go to a foreign country. Most people talk about going for a day and then come back If you know anything about the random officiousness of greek customs for example, you would understand that some officers might call your bluff and accuse you of not transiting through the EU but trying to use the one day visit to say Albabie as a technical loophole and will refuse to admit you or worse. So it's best to create the impression that you are moving on to foreign lands.
There is of course the alternative position where customs officers ignore the rule altogether; a euro spent (by you) is a euro earned ( by the country you visit)

Yes, however there is also the concern that one needs to show that you have always adhered to the rule. I make sure each exit and entry is documented and kept in our ships papers folder. What if for example, one stayed in the EU for 24 months several years ago. Despite the fact that one may have just re-entered the EU, if you cannot prove you have always observed the 18mth rule, I suspect they can still arrest the boat until VAT is paid. This would be a particular concern if you were in the country where the boat as new, was originally exported (France in our case).

Last year we had our boat 'immobilised', in Sicily, so that we did not have to exit the EU this year. We were advised we can do this again, but I am not convinced. My understanding is that you can only do it once (max 24mths), and then you need to exit the EU as normal, before you can come back - and if required - immobilise again.

The other minefield is each countries, and each officers interpretation of the rule. Safest thing - leave for a decent time, and enjoy wherever you are.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Tomaz473

You are right. I acknowledge my mistake. I forgot about Switzerland and Norway. They are exception based on previous agreements those two countries had with some other EU states. And both are developed countries and EU had large economic interes to have them in.
Regarding Montenegro joining Shengen: This is very theoretical possibility. Montenegro lacks existing trade and custom agreements with major EU states to push for Shengen. New states wanting to join EU normaly frst join EU and then try to get into Shengen agreement.

one can just imagine how many public servants has jobs just because this rules mess and able to feed next generations of public servants.

eu way to 'create' jobs ?

looks like everywhere around world worthless jobs coming out of bum.

[Blake_NZ]

Hi Robbins family
I am also from NZ, and looking to do the same as you guys. Most likely April/May next year. Looking for a 42-45 foot Bene, Jenn or similar.
I'm also interested to hear of any recommended brokers, surveyors etc in Croatia, Greece, Italy so will be keeping an eye on this thread.
Can't offer any advice form previous experience as yet, but will pass on any info I happen to find out.
All the best!
Blake

[Xlantic]

Originally Posted by robbinsfamily

Would love some advice on buying a boat in Croatia. Recommended brokers, surveyors and lawyers that speak English.

I bought my current boat in Croatia two years ago with Selymar Yachts representing the seller. They were very professional and competent throughout the process and can recommend them. I dealt with Mark Zamanis who is a Greek based in Split and speaks excellent English.

My boat was a motorboat but I know Selymar does a lot business selling ex-charter sailboats.

[LivingFree]

Hi Robbins Family,

I am a Kiwi currently in Sydney trying to find a yacht but I have not had much luck so far. The yachts that I have seen are over-priced and even though some of them have been on the market for well over a year the sellers are unwilling to budge. I am considering buying in Croatia - I have seen a yacht I really like at Selymar in Croatia. If you have already purchased a yacht in Croatia please could you let me know how it went. My email address is livingfree518 at yahoo dot com.

Many thanks

Peter

[Xlantic]

Peter,

I have nothing but good things to say about Selymar Yachts and, specifically, about Mark Zamanis with whom I dealt. He was helpful in getting the deal done (letting me know when the price was about to be dropped, travelling from Split where he is based to Dubrovnik to show me the boat, the final negotiation, ...).

Everything went without a glitch (maybe luck!).

Even after the purchase Mark was quite helpful. I had to add two house batteries and he helped me locate a supplier with whom he negotiated a good price and the delivery of the batteries from Split to Trogir where I was with the boat at the time.

[SteveSadler]

Hi Peter
I bought a Jeanneau 49 in Split from Euromarine 2 yrs ago and found the same professional attitude. There are many charter companies in Croatia who do not list their boats on Yachtworld. I recommend emailing each one now as the season is ending and the boats go up for sale. This gives you until April to locate, and negotiate the best deal, get it hauled surveyed, and insured before you want to start cruising. This process takes a lot of time, and the closer to the new season, the better the price will be. This may require a personal inspection for a condition assessment or if the price is right, rely on your surveyor.

[Dulcesuenos]

Originally Posted by Xlantic

Peter,

I have nothing but good things to say about Selymar Yachts and, specifically, about Mark Zamanis with whom I dealt. He was helpful in getting the deal done (letting me know when the price was about to be dropped, travelling from Split where he is based to Dubrovnik to show me the boat, the final negotiation, ...).

Everything went without a glitch (maybe luck!).

Even after the purchase Mark was quite helpful. I had to add two house batteries and he helped me locate a supplier with whom he negotiated a good price and the delivery of the batteries from Split to Trogir where I was with the boat at the time.

Must have been luck. We wanted to view a couple boats he had listed and he seemed to take several days to answer emails. Our main purpose in going there was to view and possibly buy. And he / they blew it.

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[Bruce Adlam]

Hi Kiwi Sailors,
There is quite a group of us and we have all been through what you are contemplating. Three of us have Beneteau 473s and they have been brilliant. We bought ours through Michael at Blue Nautic , but we also had a lot to do with Sophia at Selymar Yachts and I would recommend them both. They were very attentive and trustworthy especially at the time when you have to take the leap of faith and start transferring money.
Give Alex and Ruth a ring. They are Kiwi sailors just returning to Auckland (as I write this) 09 536 4005 They can fill you in on the issues from the Kiwi sailor perspective and may be selling their NZ registered 473 ( currently in Preveza ) and if it's what you are looking for will save you heaps of issues worries and angst and official uncertainty.
Bruce


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[Travellor]

I had less luck with Selymar Yachts. Actually it was a disaster.

I reserved a yacht and paid a deposit. Before signing the final contract, I wanted to see the ships papers.
There it turned out, that the seller is not the real owner (so only the possessor) and the yacht is registered to a leasing company.
The seller couldn't provide any official document, prooving that he is allowed to sell the boat.

And of course I didn't want to buy a yacht from a not registered owner.
Selymar didn't return the deposit of 9800 Euros. They said, this is the reservation fee and as Selymar reservated the boat for me, they'll keep it.

[chuckr]

Originally Posted by Travellor

I had less luck with Selymar Yachts. Actually it was a disaster.

I reserved a yacht and paid a deposit. Before signing the final contract, I wanted to see the ships papers.
There it turned out, that the seller is not the real owner (so only the possessor) and the yacht is registered to a leasing company.
The seller couldn't provide any official document, prooving that he is allowed to sell the boat.

And of course I didn't want to buy a yacht from a not registered owner.
Selymar didn't return the deposit of 9800 Euros. They said, this is the reservation fee and as Selymar reservated the boat for me, they'll keep it.

Take a look at EuroMarine - we did not buy from them but had work done on our boat by them and were quite impressed. We watched them turn the charter boats and were impressed on the detail of the work they did - they put us off as we were there on change over days and watched - they went through everything and made sure the boat was perfect or as close as possible - they really know what they are doing and very creative in solving problems and we presented them with a couple of beauts

[svmatau]

Kia ora Robbins whanau

We are also Kiwis looking to do the exact same thing this year. Can you please email us at svmatau@gmail.com so we can talk about how it went for you and hopefully share info and advice.

Kind regards

Tony and Kaye

[AnthonyShepp]

My wife and I purchased a Croatian registered motor boat in 2016 through
broker Selymar Yachts and our experience from dealing with Mark & Sofia
was very positive. The purchase was a little complicated as the boat was on leasing with an Austrian Bank who wanted their loan settled in order to release the title documents which in turn would allow the owner to sell. Working
with UK marine lawyers all parties agreed on the process, were paid as agreed and the boat became UK registered in one seamless transaction. Sofia was instrumental in the process, very efficient and attentive. An honest seller, broker and buyer, we all worked together - deal done. No problem with Selymar Yachts, use them if you want to buy in Croatia...