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**boatman61** · 16-12-2019, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by atoll

enjoy it whilst it lasts and the pound regains some strength,it will come as quite a surprise to many brexit voting expats that their pensions will probably come in line with the rules that currently apply to those outside the EU who receive UK pensions and WHICH do not get an ANNUAL INCREASE,making the pension about 20% less than what they would receive in the UK.

factor in also that the rules for the NHS and EHIC might also change,and be enforced for non residents coming back to the uk for treatment, (requiring private insurance.) .

also factor in the possibility of compulsory private health care insurance that covers you for both the uk and your country of residence.

Actually I was being humourous about being affluent.. I should be so lucky.. It was a response to someone who thinks I am..

Regarding pensions I have had a rise every April after the budget.. not much but a rise with inflation.. notification of the amount comes with my annual Proof of Life form

Expats only get to vote if they have a provable UK address else like me no vote.

**weavis** · 16-12-2019, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by atoll

great so we get 1 million pensioners returning to the uk who no longer qualify for residence in the eu as they cannot show an income above 1000 euros a month each and property valued at above 400,000 euros,plus cant afford private health insurance.

don't forget the 500,000 self employed brits in europe that will not qualify for work permits in the eu

law of unintended consequences

how is that going to work,we already have a housing problem without a mass influx,and a mass increase in the need for old age care will really put an overstreched NHS in crisis

Do you know how many EU residents live here? It seems you accept what is written as reality instead of supposition. The EU will walk carefully on this matter because the UK will do unto them.........

**atoll** · 16-12-2019, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis

Do you know how many EU residents live here? It seems you accept what is written as reality instead of supposition. The EU will walk carefully on this matter because the UK will do unto them.........

which all becomes null and void under a WTO exit,be a bit like pakistan and india under partition......that went well!

Hartings · 16-12-2019, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumpi

Simple. I asked why the UK wants out and what the economic and social benefits are. Transmitterdan was the only one to answer with some reasons and said there is probably no economic benefit. Now the reasons transmitterdan provided for leaving and wich I have no reason to doubt, namely immigration and security, financial bailouts and laws made in Brussels are only reasons to leave if one is uninformed. The UK is not an eurozone country and under no obligation to bailout anybody. In fact the only aid they provided was to Ireland and Portugal and it was voluntary. The Brussels made laws are not god given, the UK has a say in them as long as it is a member. Immigration and security are also misrepresented, the UK is not in Schengen and has full control over its borders (and would have it even if in Schengen) and asylum seekers that have a residency card in a EU country do not enjoy EU freedom of labour. And the UK is not a significant point of entry and as such has full benefits from the Dublin agreement.

I am ready to believe there are other reasons for brexit, ones that are not based on uninformed emotional reactions. Likewise I would want to know what the economic and social benefits Brexit will bring. So please educate me.

It’s such a tough question to answer. I think you need to look at both the demographics of the UK and to a certain extent recent politically and economic history.
Remember that the Referendum was only called by Cameron in an attempt to resolve long-festering EU-related issues within the Tory party. They suffered with a radical anti-EU element for many years. He thought he had an opportunity to shut them up forever : call a Referendum, win it and shut up the anti-Eu group.
Why did he fail ? Well, he hadn’t worked out that there was a significant underclass (particularly in the North of England - ex steel, coal and textiles towns) who felt completely abandoned by the Westminster metropolitan elite, and for whom the 21st Century had offered them nothing except a gradual deterioration of their living standards as many years of austerity took its toll. For this section of the electorate anything had to be better than the status quo ante. Brexit for them was a no-brainer, let’s vote for something different as it can’t be worse than what we already have.

Then there were the Little Englanders - a demographic composed of post-65 years old who felt that the sun had set on the British Empire prematurely. We only needed to cast off the yoke of Europeanism and get rid of Johnny Foreigner and we could once again take our rightful place in the world.

Then there was the Referendum campaign itself - Remain were convinced they would win and therefore ran the most incompetent of campaigns imaginable. Leave on the other hand were galvanised with a zealousness that was very impressive but massively corrupted by very misleading statements bordering on outright lies. In this age of ignoring facts and denigrating experts they succeeded in swinging a number of undecided voters that the grass was certainly greener on the Brexit side of the hill, that there would be masses of trade deals which would appear overnight and that Brexit could be concluded within days. It is very sobering to look back and see what they were promising : lots of economic benefits which now that reality has dawned never get mentioned.

**weavis** · 16-12-2019, 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by atoll

which all becomes null and void under a WTO exit,be a bit like pakistan and india under partition......that went well!

No it doesnt. EU doesnt want a million plus people back either. LOL. its politics but reality is what it is.

Spain is frapped whatever the politicians say. Spanish students are here in droves. 63% of the unemployed in Spain are under 26. NO FUTURE! So many of them come here.

So in the end....... when the hard cost of losing the 2nd biggest contributor to the EU hits home... individual countries will do what they need to do to survive... the EU knows this and are worried.

Im worried. But then if you take each point and break it down....... the UK will survive.

**atoll** · 16-12-2019, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Actually I was being humourous about being affluent.. I should be so lucky.. It was a response to someone who thinks I am..

Regarding pensions I have had a rise every April after the budget.. not much but a rise with inflation.. notification of the amount comes with my annual Proof of Life form

Expats only get to vote if they have a provable UK address else like me no vote.

you can probably kiss that annual raise goodbye what ever happens.
the DWP will have to bring remmitance's in line with what it pays to all the other UK pensioners who reside outside the EU

**weavis** · 16-12-2019, 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by atoll

you can probably kiss that annual raise goodbye what ever happens.

the DWP will have to bring remmitance's in line with what it pays to all the other UK pensioners who reside outside the EU

Alex.. you need a holiday...

Lake-Effect · 16-12-2019, 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis

How on earth did you get to that conclusion [ British with the means or skills will be able to buy their way back into all the benefits of EU citizenship and free movement]? The only way to have EU benefits is to have an EU passport.

From here. And here.

**atoll** · 16-12-2019, 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis

No it doesnt. EU doesnt want a million plus people back either. LOL. its politics but reality is what it is.

Spain is frapped whatever the politicians say. Spanish students are here in droves. 63% of the unemployed in Spain are under 26. NO FUTURE! So many of them come here.

So in the end....... when the hard cost of losing the 2nd biggest contributor to the EU hits home... individual countries will do what they need to do to survive... the EU knows this and are worried.

Im worried. But then if you take each point and break it down....... the UK will survive.

yup we will survive.....we already have got the food banks set up

Exile · 16-12-2019, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montanan

Amongst my British clients, there was considerable discussion of economic sovereignty issues, but the fundamental underlying motivation that they expressed [but which they personally largely did not hold agreement with] was British nationalism, xenophobia and bigotry towards "foreigners".

Your words, and your characterization. Others beg to differ about the reasons underlying their votes, most notably the age-old human desire for self-determination, as expressed in the US Declaration of Independence you cite.

**weavis** · 16-12-2019, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

From here.

2016
Since scrapped.

**weavis** · 16-12-2019, 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exile

Your words, and your characterization. Others beg to differ about the reasons underlying their votes, most notably the age-old human desire for self-determination, as expressed in the US Declaration of Independence you cite.

One of the major reasons in mind.