BREXIT

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by atoll

nothing is written in stone untill boris and the EU put something in writing.
and even then there is still a 12 month transition period before what ever agreed is implemented, brexit will still be being discussed in 10 years time,the lawyers have 4 million pages to get through

although you might want to wait a bit till the euro hits 5 euro to the pound

Err.. I Think not, my pension comes in Euros and in the last 2 weeks boats I am considering have gone up by nearly €1000.. €1.10 to the £ was my sweet spot but did not foresee a positive market reaction to Brexit more the opposite and going down.
On the bright side I'm getting a few more euros a month.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Err.. I Think not, my pension comes in Euros and in the last 2 weeks boats I am considering have gone up by nearly €1000.. €1.10 to the £ was my sweet spot but did not foresee a positive market reaction to Brexit more the opposite and going down.
On the bright side I'm getting a few more euros a month.

the portugese are paying your pension,not the british?

[boatman61]

Its a UK state pension but is paid into my Portuguese bank account.
Not having a UK residence means a UK bank account is not possible, not had one since 2001
Living on a boat has certain limitations, when I was temping in the UK post '01 from time to time income went into a friends account but thats not feasible since I made this my base.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its a UK state pension but is paid into my Portuguese bank account.
Not having a UK residence means a UK bank account is not possible, not had one since 2001

then you are fine if the euro crashes,and /or at least returns to pre referendum levels which was 1.42 euros to the pound,not so good if the pound crashes but this is unlikely as the pound will be seen as a safe haven for the trillions of dirty money that will have found a new home under the likes of rees mog and other unscrupulos uk fund managers able to now avoid investigation by the EU and US tax offices after brexit

that is if buying in europe,not so good if buying in the uk

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by atoll

... the pound will be seen as a safe haven for the trillions of dirty money that will have found a new home under the likes of rees mog and other unscrupulos uk fund managers

This is the first step to that "Singapore-on-Thames" concept, yes?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

This is the first step to that "Singapore-on-Thames" concept, yes?

Naah.. It has ever been so.. why dya think so many Football Clubs are owned by Russians, Chinese, Saudis and shell companies.. then there's the blocks of empty properties in London..
Same people and friends..

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Naah.. It has ever been so.. why dya think so many Football Clubs are owned by Russians, Chinese, Saudis and shell companies.. then there's the blocks of empty properties in London..
Same people and friends..

Sure, but London as a freewheeling and um "undiscriminating" center of world finance is relatively recent - eg last 20 or so years?

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

This is the first step to that "Singapore-on-Thames" concept, yes?

you can't hide your dollars these day s from uncle sam, stashing euros in switzerland is problomatic, panama is still risky due to information leaks, no point in keeping it in roubles or peso's,hey ho these guys can make it disappear
in any one of those nice UK carribean islands ,and still provide a decent return....no questions asked about where it came from,by a bank with an AAA rating

we have been at it for years.......nobody in the UK with significant wealth pays tax in the uk on their wealth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdEKbbhxiUE&t=1007s

[john61ct]

Yes when I researched this in the 80's the UK-affiliated banksters were already at the forefront worldwide.

The ever-tightening "international order" efforts to try to make the top 1% pay their share, just increased their importance.

Personally I think that is the real motivation for Brexit, all the nationalistic proto-fascist xenophobia is just the result of intentional long-term propaganda efforts.

Aided by you-know-who, benefiting from any weakening of the dream of a strong unified Europe.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Still does not change the realities..
https://www.europeanceo.com/finance/...ancial-crisis/
https://www.worldfinance.com/banking...into-hot-water
And lets face it, the German economy is tanking, France is teetering and Italy is a basket case..
Brexit is in my view a good thing.. but hey!! Thats just my view, got no skin in the game.
Just an observer with nothing to lose and a wide open world..

Hmmm... Let's see, the GDP of the EU (admittedly not a good nor valid representation of quality of life [except for, perhaps, the very rich]) is about 18.8 trillion, just a bit below the US, at 19.4.

Take the UK out, it drops to 16.2. Will be interesting to see what happens (if and when Brexit actually comes about as it is currently touted).


Meanwhile, leaving aside the flag-waving Brexit support that seems to belie the comment "got no skin in the game", the 'affluence apathy' demonstrated seems to precisely describe why many western governments have gotten themselves into this position.

You, and certainly others who may be a little less affluent than you, absolutely have 'skin in the game'; their misunderstanding of the knife edge they're standing on, or perhaps their very cognizance of it, leads them to make choices that may actually wind up being detrimental to them. (and often enough have in the past)

But no one said (or expects) life to be 'fair', that's just 'fevered-dream' talk of clueless liberals....

[Ghostrider421]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Deutsche Bank Struggles to Survive
German financial services giant Deutsche Bank AG is one of the largest and most important economic institutions in the world. Mainly due to self-imposed scandals, the bank is now having to take drastic measures to stay afloat. Investors everywhere should note that if such a critical piece of the too-big-to-fail banking system falters, it could trigger another global financial crisis.
https://news.bitcoin.com/deutsche-ba...ncial-markets/

DB is the worst of all. DB is bankrupt. It underwrote all of DT's investments, hotels, etc

[weavis]

So getting back to Brexit and leaving aside in depth political discussions..we really do not know how the leaving of the UK will affect residents and passport holders yet, or how it will affect Cruising in the EU waters.

There is a very REAL situational problem of the EU dragging out discussions, and making demands that the UK align with EU standards, which invariably will become major sticking points for a "free" UK, and will drag the UK into too close a reliance/alliance/restricted relationship to be able to negotiate with non EU countries freely. Divorces drag on forever. Sometimes it is better to just cut the tie and exit immediately.

I have NO FAITH in the deal Johnson has proposed and have no trust in him cutting the relationship to be free.

The scenario I see ahead is adherence to the EU rules, paying them and having no say in the situation at all.

We will have to wait and see.

[Montanan]

FYI:

As a Montanan I have no skin in this situation being from a colony that Brexited a long time ago, but I located the Royal Yachting Association website guidance page.



https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-adv...-scenario.aspx


No deal Brexit scenario
What does the ‘no deal’ Brexit* scenario look like?

When is the UK due to leave the EU?

A further extension to the Article 50 negotiating period until 31 January 2020 has been agreed. During this extended negotiating period the UK continues to have full rights as an EU member state.

By 31 January 2020, the UK must either ratify a withdrawal agreement with the EU or agree a further extension to the Article 50 negotiating period otherwise, at 2300 GMT on 31 January 2020, the UK will leave the EU without a deal.

If a withdrawal agreement is ratified there will be a transitional period until 31 December 2020 (unless otherwise negotiated) during which, to the best of our knowledge, the UK's current terms of EU membership continue, though without formal UK representation in the EU institutions. During the transitional period the UK and the EU will finalise the UK’s future relationship with the EU and it is only once those negotiations have been concluded that we will know what the implications of Brexit from the end of the transitional period will be.

If a further extension to the Article 50 negotiating period is agreed, during this extended negotiating period the UK would again continue to have full rights as an EU member state.

What happens if the UK and the EU do not ratify a withdrawal agreement?

If the UK leaves the EU without a deal (i.e. without ratifying a withdrawal agreement) the EU the UK will immediately be classified by the EU as a ‘third country’ and will be treated by the remaining 27 EU Member States (EU27) as any other third country would be treated.

Will a ‘no deal’ Brexit mean I can no longer rely on my ICC when boating in the EU27?

The International Certificate of Competence (ICC) (or to give it its full title International Certificate for Operators of Pleasure Craft) is not an EU document. It is issued under the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE) Inland Transport Committee Working Party on Inland Water Transport Resolution 40. It is this resolution which details how and to whom the ICC may be issued, the syllabus requirements, the layout of the certificate and it also lists the countries which have notified the UNECE Secretariat that they have accepted the resolution. The UK Government has accepted Resolution 40 and has authorised the RYA to issue the ICC on its behalf.

Evidence of Competence for recreational boating is generally a matter for domestic/national legislation. If the EU were to develop a skipper licensing for private pleasure craft directive or regulation at some point in the future, acceptance of the ICC in EU countries might change. But at this stage we have no reason to suspect that acceptance of the ICC might change as a direct consequence of Brexit.

Will I be able to continue to keep my boat in an EU27 country after a ‘no deal’ Brexit?

If your boat has the customs status of Union goods (Union status) and is in a port or the internal or territorial waters of the EU27 at the point in time where the UK leaves the EU, our understanding is that it should retain its Union status and should continue to be entitled to free movement.

It will retain that status while it remains in the EU27 and if it is exported and returns to the customs territory of the Union, assuming the conditions of re-import (in accordance with both the Union Customs Code and the VAT Directive) are met, relief from import duty would be granted and an exemption on the payment of VAT should be applicable.

Means of proving Union status are detailed in the Union Customs Code Implementing Regulations. Of the documents listed, an invoice or a paper T2L are the most suitable for recreational boats.

In the event of a no-deal Brexit it may be beneficial for owners of boats lying in the EU at the time of Brexit to have obtained a T2L from HMRC. It may also be prudent to retain evidence that the boat was in the EU at the time of Brexit.

Note: HMRC will only issue a T2L with a UK address.

What happens if a boat which currently has Union Status is in the UK at the time of a ‘no deal’ Brexit?

We have information provided by the European Commission which indicates that in the event of a ‘no deal’ Brexit, if a boat is in the UK (or UK territorial waters) at the point in time where the UK leaves the EU, it will assume UK status and will lose its Union status. We believe that would mean that the boat would no longer be entitled to relief from VAT and import duty if the owner wanted to import it into the EU at a later date; any evidence the owner previously had (such as an invoice or T2L) would therefore no longer demonstrate Union status.

What happens if I take a boat with UK status to the EU27 after a ‘no deal’ Brexit?

In the event of ‘no deal’ a UK registered boat which does not have Union Status entering the EU27 may be able to claim Temporary Admission. Boats without the status of Union goods which are registered outside the EU and which are owned by someone who is established outside the EU are entitled to 18 months Temporary Admission. After 18 months they must either be imported or leave the EU. If they leave the EU they can return almost immediately and start a further 18 months Temporary Admission. If the boat is imported into the EU (paying VAT and import duty) it gains Union status and the 18 month restriction no longer applies.

If my boat is outside the UK and the EU27 at the time of a 'no deal' Brexit will I have to pay VAT and import duty if I take it into the EU27 after Brexit?

See EU Commission confirms RYA thinking on Returned Goods Relief for information on this.

If my boat is lying in the EU27 at the time of a ‘no deal’ Brexit, will I be able to claim relief from VAT and import duty if I bring it back to the UK after Brexit?

HMRC has advised the RYA that plans have been made to replicate Returned Goods Relief (RGR) into domestic law in the event of a no deal. RGR allows those resident in the UK to return with their belongings (including pleasure boats) to the UK without paying customs duty or VAT as long as the items have not been changed since their departure and follow the guidance given in the Notice 236 Returned Good Relief.

The UK Government has undertaken that RGR will be available in respect of UK pleasure craft not moored in the UK on EU exit day. They may return to the UK after the exit and be subject to returned goods relief as long as the person responsible has evidence that the VAT was paid on the purchase of the boat in either the UK or the EU. The types of proof needed are shown in Notice 8. VAT accounted for in the UK would need to be shown in respect of vessels purchased after the date of the EU exit.

Vessel owners not established in the UK can temporarily import their vessels using the rules set out in Notice 8.
There is no need to have every UK boat back in the UK on EU exit day.
Do I need to change my country of registration in order to keep my boat in an EU 27 country after a ‘no deal’ Brexit?

Registration of a privately owned recreational boat is generally a matter for domestic/national legislation. Free movement for the vessel is linked to the vessel having Union status. As long as it is lying in the EU27 on the day that the UK leaves the EU, based on the Union Customs Code its status should not change as a result of Brexit alone. For that reason, if an EU member state is happy that you keep your UK registered vessel on its territorial or internal waters now there is no reason that we can see why that should not be the case after Brexit.

At the moment the RYA does not believe there will be any advantage to registering your boat in another EU country. If you decide to register your boat in another country you will then have to comply with that country’s legislation. That could entail having that country’s evidence of competence (which might involve a test in the country’s language), compulsory equipment etc.

After a ‘no deal’ Brexit will I still be able to spend the whole summer on my boat in the EU27?

The immigration situation in the event of a ‘no deal’ Brexit could be a hindrance. We assume that UK Citizens who are normally resident in an EU27 country will be able to stay, without penalty, although there may be caveats. Owners that are not resident in an EU27 country may be able spend significantly less time in the Schengen area than the boat can spend in the EU as the duration of stay for a third country national visiting the Schengen area is usually limited to 90 days in any 180 days period.

Information has been published on the country specific travel advice pages on gov.uk which indicates that, “The European Commission has proposed that in a no deal situation, if you are a British Citizen, you would not need a visa for short stays in the Schengen area or elsewhere in the EU. You would be able to stay for up to 90 days in any 180-day period. Visits to the Schengen area within the previous 180 days before your date of travel will count against the 90-day limit.”

The RYA has been lobbying hard to ensure that the inadequacy of the Schengen visa time frames for UK residents who keep their boats in the EU and who wish to cruise in excess of 90 days on Community waters is understood.



If a deal between the UK and the EU is agreed, this will lead to a transition period from the date of exit until the end of the transition period (31 December 2020 unless otherwise agreed), during which the UK's current terms of EU membership continue, though without formal UK representation in the EU institutions and with the agreement that the UK will be able to sign (though not implement) trade deals with non-EU countries. This Q & A considers the situation in the event that ‘no deal’ is agreed. We cannot be sure that this is what will transpire as these are of course just assumptions, based on knowledge of the legislation as it currently stands.

If you wish to contact the RYA regarding Brexit please email brexit@rya.org.uk

[Ghostrider421]

Weavis: The UK is not dependent on the EU. But rather the other way around. Same for Scotland. They export to the EU more than they import. With more multimillionairs in England than anywhere else on the planet, I don't see the pound going down much. If anything the USA is the safest place to put money. Billions are transferred from other countries every year. The money isn't going the other way.

I wouldn't worry about cruising the Brit Isles or camping out there on the hook. That's the least of my worries. However, if the UK doesn't exit - all bets are off.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider421

Weavis: The UK is not dependent on the EU. But rather the other way around. Same for Scotland. They export to the EU more than they import. With more multimillionairs in England than anywhere else on the planet, I don't see the pound going down much. If anything the USA is the safest place to put money. Billions are transferred from other countries every year. The money isn't going the other way.

I wouldn't worry about cruising the Brit Isles or camping out there on the hook. That's the least of my worries. However, if the UK doesn't exit - all bets are off.

eh? Ive made it clear that the UK is not dependent... but they are a member of a club with rules that they have to untangle.

Nigel Farage was and is right. Just leave on WTO. The club already is issuing statements that one year is not long enough to deal with everything...... To get a 'soft' Brexit will take years. Boris needs to cut the knot.

Not to mention they are demanding billions for it happen, and if Britain is still a member during negotiations, its ANOTHER 20 Billion a year plus no say in anything..