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Old 15-12-2019, 14:39   #226
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Re: BREXIT

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Originally Posted by Ghostrider421 View Post
... With more multimillionairs in England than anywhere else on the planet ...
I think not.

Credit Suisse just released its annual Global Wealth Report*, revealing which countries the most millionaires call home.
The US consistently tops the list. There are almost 47 million people in the world in the millionaire club, and roughly 40% (18,614,000) of them reside in the US. China, the country with the second-most millionaires in the world (4,447,000), has the most people in the top 10% of global wealth distribution.
The United Kingdom ranks fourth, with 2,460,000 millionaires, behind Japan (3,025,000).
Credit Suisse Global Wealth Report
https://www.credit-suisse.com/about-...th-report.html

According to the market research firm Wealth-X: The leading country for UHNW individuals (those with $30m or more in net worth) in 2018, the US accounts for a 31% global share. This compared with 9% for second-placed China, and nearly 7% for third-placed Japan. The “World Ultra Wealth Report 2019” found the U.S. has 81,340 people with at least $30 million of net worth living in the country (more than the next 5, China, Japan, Germany, Canada and France combined), a 2.2% increase compared to last year.
One interesting development was the increase in the ultra-rich in the United Kingdom, which jumped above Hong Kong, despite fears about a potential calamitous fallout from Britain’s impending departure from the European Union.
World Ultra Wealth Report 2019https://www.wealthx.com/report/world...h-report-2019/
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Old 15-12-2019, 14:53   #227
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Re: BREXIT

Both the millionaire count and GDP need to be stated per capita.

Does anyone think the former is actually a positive?
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Old 15-12-2019, 14:53   #228
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Re: BREXIT

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No it hasn't.... its barely older than the United States of America... Act of Union was 1707.... Ireland only came on board in 1801..

Nationhood was not defined by union. Unions come and go -- England was in union with Normandy and even with Denmark at one time. Scotland may leave -- that doesn't reset the clock.



But the nation, its distinctive culture, its sense of nationhood, is very ancient.



Its political institutions are very ancient -- Magna Carta is 800 years old.



I only mentioned it in response to the comparison with Oregon, which has nothing like nationhood. 1000+ years of nationhood make it hard to just give up sovereignty with the stroke of a pen. I'm not a Brexiteer, but one has to understand that this is a powerful force behind Brexit.
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Old 15-12-2019, 15:13   #229
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Hey Atoll..
I just found out I'm Affluent...
WHEEEeeeeeeee,!!!!
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Old 15-12-2019, 15:18   #230
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Re: BREXIT

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Hey Atoll..
I just found out I'm Affluent...
WHEEEeeeeeeee,!!!!
You know.. even if I was, I'd still go for tapas and beer or wine in any cafe I thought was reasonably priced in Spain.

I like what I like and I'm not influenced by high prices unless what I get is worth it...

Get used to it Boatie!!

As an interesting side note, one person in 200 in Hong Kong is ultra-wealthy. You would never know because they tend to live in the same apartment block as you and are not ostentatious at all. Usually only find out after they die.
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Old 15-12-2019, 15:21   #231
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Re: BREXIT

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Both the millionaire count and GDP need to be stated per capita.

Does anyone think the former is actually a positive?

Certainly it's a positive. A country without millionaires is a country without accumulated capital and so without the conditions for forming capital, and therefore without the conditions for entrepreneurship and the creation of jobs, technology, and innovation. Capital makes the world go round. You want as much of it in as many hands as possible, if you want a dynamic economy and a dynamic society.


The Nordic countries understand this and contrary to American stereotypes about them, they go to great lengths to promote entrepreneurship and allow people to accumulate capital. Sweden and Finland have a far LESS progressive income tax structure than the U.S., corporate tax rates are roughly half, in Finland the state will pay you two years of your former salary if you quit a job in order to start a new company. The Nordic countries have no wealth taxes and no inheritance taxes (except for an inheritance tax only in Denmark). I have a very wealthy American friend, worth more than $100 million, who gave up his American passport in order to take up Swedish citizenship. Sweden has LOTS of millionaires -- 116,000 dollar millionaires, to be exact (https://www.thelocal.se/20170928/swe...ires-than-ever), putting Sweden in the top 25 countries in absolute numbers of them, not per capita (and Sweden has only 10 million people).



The Stockholm Region has more startups than Silicon Valley, with a lower rate of failure.



Creating jobs, technology and innovation WITHOUT millionaires or the conditions which will allow people to become millionaires -- that was tried for 75 years in the Soviet Union. This was not as big a failure as we were mistaught in school -- the Soviet economy defeated Nazi Germany. But as a way to build a prosperous society where everyone has enough and is able to develop -- it just doesn't work -- we have enough data to know that now.
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Old 15-12-2019, 15:45   #232
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Re: BREXIT

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Certainly it's a positive. A country without millionaires is a country without accumulated capital and so without the conditions for forming capital, and therefore without the conditions for entrepreneurship and the creation of jobs, technology, and innovation. Capital makes the world go round. You want as much of it in as many hands as possible, if you want a dynamic economy and a dynamic society.


The Nordic countries understand this and contrary to American stereotypes about them, they go to great lengths to promote entrepreneurship and allow people to accumulate capital. Sweden and Finland have a far LESS progressive income tax structure than the U.S., corporate tax rates are roughly half, in Finland the state will pay you two years of your former salary if you quit a job in order to start a new company. The Nordic countries have no wealth taxes and no inheritance taxes (except for an inheritance tax only in Denmark). I have a very wealthy American friend, worth more than $100 million, who gave up his American passport in order to take up Swedish citizenship. Sweden has LOTS of millionaires -- 116,000 dollar millionaires, to be exact (https://www.thelocal.se/20170928/swe...ires-than-ever), putting Sweden in the top 25 countries in absolute numbers of them, not per capita (and Sweden has only 10 million people).



The Stockholm Region has more startups than Silicon Valley, with a lower rate of failure.



Creating jobs, technology and innovation WITHOUT millionaires or the conditions which will allow people to become millionaires -- that was tried for 75 years in the Soviet Union. This was not as big a failure as we were mistaught in school -- the Soviet economy defeated Nazi Germany. But as a way to build a prosperous society where everyone has enough and is able to develop -- it just doesn't work -- we have enough data to know that now.
The Soviet Union defeated Germany with the help of its weather, geographical expanse and not a small material and other contributions from US and other allies. Not because of but in spite of its economic system. Its economy was top heavy toward heavy industry but without the rational input from competing ideas, etc. As a stand alone system it was very vulnerable to the mistakes of its leadership which operated in a certain mental vacuum which became very evident in its instanteneous collapse in 1991. What has taken the Roman Empire hundreds of years or British Empire decades only took a few days, weeks at most, for the Soviet Empire. Without the WW2 to explain the depravations of everyday life it would've likely collapsed in the 50s with the death of Stalin.
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Old 15-12-2019, 16:13   #233
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Re: BREXIT

FWIW: Hong Kong Has by Far the Highest Density of Ultra Wealthy Individuals
At 1,364 for every million adults, Hong Kongs’ UHNW population density was considerably higher than the next-ranked countries of Switzerland, Luxembourg and Singapore – all established financial- services hubs – and more than four times the density of the US.
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Old 15-12-2019, 19:27   #234
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Re: BREXIT

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post

The Nordic countries understand this and contrary to American stereotypes about them, they go to great lengths to promote entrepreneurship and allow people to accumulate capital. Sweden and Finland have a far LESS progressive income tax structure than the U.S., corporate tax rates are roughly half, in Finland the state will pay you two years of your former salary if you quit a job in order to start a new company. The Nordic countries have no wealth taxes and no inheritance taxes (except for an inheritance tax only in Denmark). I have a very wealthy American friend, worth more than $100 million, who gave up his American passport in order to take up Swedish citizenship. Sweden has LOTS of millionaires -- 116,000 dollar millionaires, to be exact (https://www.thelocal.se/20170928/swe...ires-than-ever), putting Sweden in the top 25 countries in absolute numbers of them, not per capita (and Sweden has only 10 million people).
Something here doesn't seem to add up, or is at least being left out. Where does the money to pay these 'interim salaries' come from? Is the two years salary just a loan to be paid back? Or is it just 'redistribution', or perhaps just 'proper distribution' of 'wealth' (how I despise that characterization of money) right from the start? It sounds a bit like the Nordic countries you describe may have embraced what so many Americans (at least) have found so hard to understand, that economies are built on consumers who buy, and not oligarchs who dispense.

We'll leave aside if that is a good thing in the long run or not...
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Old 15-12-2019, 21:08   #235
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Re: BREXIT

Not two years of your former salary according to this site:


https://www.te-palvelut.fi/te/en/emp...ant/index.html


The purpose of startup grants is to encourage new businesses and promote employment. The grant provides an entrepreneur with a secure income during the time that getting the business up and running is estimated to take – however for no more than 12 months. The startup grant consists of a basic grant, which amounts to EUR 32.40 a day.
You may be eligible for a startup grant if
  • you are an unemployed jobseeker
  • you are not unemployed, but you are setting up as a full-time entrepreneur after a period in paid employment, education or domestic work
  • you are part-time entrepreneur and you are planning to become full-time entrepreneur.
The startup grant will only be granted by the TE Office once it has been established that enterprising is a suitable option for the applicant to employ him/herself.
Preconditions for receiving the grant include
  • being a full-time entrepreneur
  • having adequate capabilities for the intended business
  • having potential for continued profitable operation
  • the grant is necessary for the entrepreneur's survival
  • the business is only started after the grant has been awarded.
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Old 15-12-2019, 21:24   #236
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Re: BREXIT

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
I think not.

Credit Suisse just released its annual Global Wealth Report*, revealing which countries the most millionaires call home.
The US consistently tops the list. ...
The millionaire count is not even close, by many fold (6 or more). Not sure how anyone could miss that.
However, it does look like the UK tops the European list, then Germany.
Regarding Brexit, one has to wonder what kind of friendly new US-British trade agreements might end up lifting the British economy well past its EU peers.
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Old 15-12-2019, 21:38   #237
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Re: BREXIT

The US is not likely to be "friendly" to anyone these days.

Dismantle your consumer protections, privatize your health industry, then maybe
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Old 15-12-2019, 21:40   #238
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Re: BREXIT

Looking into EU from the outside it boggles the mind how they all are real political control freaks in all aspects of life. I understand that this came about due to the density of the population, several big wars, mutual distrust, etc. But at some point the Europeans, and not just the Brits, have to realize that this is a dead end economically, culturally and creativity wise. In the post-industrial age the control over the populace has to be so subtle that it is not seen or felt. Just like the facebook/google model. And not the legalistic heavy handed model of what is going on in EU today where person's or business' every move has volumes of regulations for or against it.

I laughed when years ago I first learned that EU has strict ratings for suitability of private vessels to go out at sea. And will not allow a lake rated boat to be offshore. At first I thought it was a joke. But my friend the boat builder from the old country was equally surprised that US does not restrict its boaters from ocean travel in whatever craft they chose to sail in. That is the difference in mentality and what I am talking about.
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Old 15-12-2019, 21:45   #239
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Re: BREXIT

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
The US is not likely to be "friendly" to anyone these days.

Dismantle your consumer protections, privatize your health industry, then maybe
I would add: pay for your own defense and take care of Euro problems before expecting US to bail you out militarily.

I still don't understand why there was a need for US to be involved in the Balkan problems in the 90s and 2000s when EU was perrfectly capable to do that with its own military and/or development aid.
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Old 15-12-2019, 22:11   #240
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Re: BREXIT

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Nationhood was not defined by union. Unions come and go -- England was in union with Normandy and even with Denmark at one time. Scotland may leave -- that doesn't reset the clock.



But the nation, its distinctive culture, its sense of nationhood, is very ancient.



Its political institutions are very ancient -- Magna Carta is 800 years old.



I only mentioned it in response to the comparison with Oregon, which has nothing like nationhood. 1000+ years of nationhood make it hard to just give up sovereignty with the stroke of a pen. I'm not a Brexiteer, but one has to understand that this is a powerful force behind Brexit.
To say that the United Kingdom has existed as a nation for over a thousand years is non sense....

That is a bit like saying the german nation existed before Bismark turned up.... and at least they had common race and language.

The only reason the Treaty of Union came to pass and the United Kingdom exists is that the Scots had done all their dosh in Darien and their economy was broken.

The UK does not have a distinctive culture - the Scots, the Irish, the Welsh and - to a lesser extent - the English each have their own culture, have different tongues and different racial tribal origins.

All a bit like the former Yugoslavia really.. and could well go the same way if they weren't all ( apart from the Irish ) so apathetic....

Most - especially outside England - identify as Scottish or Welsh or whatever... not as 'British'.

While I have a British passport - amongst others - I will always... when asked 'place of birth?' say Scotland....

As I say... its all a little bit Balkan.
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