Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-07-2021, 20:31   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Edmonton, AB
Boat: 2021 NEEL 47 (Hull #30)
Posts: 35
Bilateral Agreements and/or other ways to extend time for Schengen countries

I know there are lots of threads about the existence of bilateral agreements. Iíve read them. Iím just wondering if anyone has any *recent* experience with successfully extending time in Schengen countries past 90 days, and if so, how?


We are collecting our boat in France soon, and have decided to spend a year in the Med rather than rush across the Atlantic. We need to hunker down somewhere for winter, hopefully in the eastern Med.

We want to resume cruising in April in a Greece-Italy-France area before we head to Spain/Morocco. 90 days is too little time for cruising through all we want to see in G-I-F, IMO. Do we spend 60 days in Greece, then move on to Italy for 30 days, then ask for more time before heading to France and throwing ourselves on the mercy of the customs dudes? Seems like that leaves a lot to chance.

Hoping someone out there has done this and can provide experienced advice.

We are all fully Vaxxed, so it seems, for now, that Covid restrictions wonít keep us out of those destinations.
SVNagambie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-07-2021, 01:22   #2
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 15,793
Images: 3
Bilateral Agreements and/or other ways to extend time for Schengen countries

There are some bilateral agreements but most seem to apply to Aussie and NZ citizens.

Once you move outside the Schengen tourist visa ( wavier scheme) you are largely in the land of residence visas of one form or another. Iím familiar with Greece which has such a process .

France has two long( er) stay visas the second one is essentially a residence visa.

All require significant paperwork and many must be applied from within the country. ( for example Greece requires a police visit and finger printing ) most have various stipulations to to health insurance and source of funds etc.

Do not under any circumstances actively overstay and never seek the ď mercy of the customs dudes ď who have nothing to do with it anyway.

The reality is to extend your time in the Schengen area requires you to acquire one or more extended national visas

Note also that having an extended visa for one country does not extend the Schengen time in another


So in practice you have three options

(A) after using up your 90 days , spend enough time in a non Schengen country to recover some Schengen days to complete your Schengen country visits. This could mean upto 90 days out of Schengen . Note this is just the crew. The boat can remain for 18 months. However if your using the boat to live on , that would suggest Gibraltar , Morocco ,Albania , Croatia or Montenegro could be used to ď hide out ď ( Croatia is joining Schengen ) the U.K. and Ireland are too far away from G-I-F to be useful.

(B) leave the boat and fly home for 3 months to return for another 3 months

(C) decide on a Schengen country to stay in to recover Schengen days and apply for a long stay visa. Contact the relevant embassies in advance to establish what long stay visa program suits your needs. Do this way before the needed dates as some are cumbersome processes and take time. Some require you to complete the process in the country.

Personally at the moment I wouldnít feel comfortable long staying in any North African country

So the obvious one would be to plan on France and eastern Italy / Corsica , Sardinia and Sicily in the first 90 days , make a run to Croatia and then work westwards back through the Adriatic Ionian , Crete, Balearics etc, presuming you intend to cross from the Canaries , youíll need to aim to be there by October

The canaries is also in Schengen and also represents an issue of time allowance

Even two periods of 90 days is way to short to explore G-I-F. My last sojourn in the southern Ionian took 2 months and I covered 200 miles in that time !!! ( Iím EU so no time limit. ) I like to often spend 4-6 days in a port or anchorage

Id would personally recommend you fly home to avoid peak Med tourists months and try to cruise in the spring early summer , early and late autumn. Peak summer is crowded , expensive and hot.

To really cover the ground you mention especially if you would like to cover the Greek and Turkish Aegean islands as well as the Adriatic countries will take 2 years or more.( I ten years exploring France Italy and Greece !!!, having recently moved from France to Greece )

Unfortunately for non EU citizens the Schengen Agreement that facilitates free movement within the agreement countries is quite time limited as it was simply intended to mirror the visa waiver scheme adopted by the US.

There is no ď practical way ď to extend that Schengen visa waiver , there are ď hardship ď extensions but these are not easy to get and very specific. ( and typically get you about two weeks )
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-07-2021, 02:04   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Nice, France
Boat: Hunter Marine 38
Posts: 1,148
Re: Bilateral Agreements and/or other ways to extend time for Schengen countries

Apply for a European Visa here:

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/how...schengen-visa/

you can stay longer then 90 days.
Enjoy your time in the Med.
sailormed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-07-2021, 02:12   #4
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 15,793
Images: 3
Bilateral Agreements and/or other ways to extend time for Schengen countries

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailormed View Post
Apply for a European Visa here:

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/how...schengen-visa/

you can stay longer then 90 days.
Enjoy your time in the Med.


Firstly based on the OPs profile , heís Canadian and hence can avail of the Schengen Visa Wavier scheme.

As I said that canít be extended except for ď hardship ď cases , cruising the Med is not regarded as a hardship !!!

Outside that the approach is as I laid out.

Nothing in that link offers longer stay options
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-07-2021, 09:39   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boat in Greece, Beach cat in Israel
Boat: Lagoon 400 & Nacra 6.0 beach cat
Posts: 1,319
Re: Bilateral Agreements and/or other ways to extend time for Schengen countries

We have long term Greek visas.
These were granted on "independent means" proof.
Basically you prove to the Greek authorities that you have steady stream if income (at least € 2,000 per month) plus health insurance plus no police record.
It is somewhat complicated bureaucratic process to be done with the Greek consulate in your country of normal residency.
We survived the process and got a year long visa.
__________________
Mark, S/Y Bat-Yam
meirriba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-07-2021, 17:32   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Edmonton, AB
Boat: 2021 NEEL 47 (Hull #30)
Posts: 35
Re: Bilateral Agreements and/or other ways to extend time for Schengen countries

Quote:
Originally Posted by meirriba View Post
We have long term Greek visas.
These were granted on "independent means" proof.
Basically you prove to the Greek authorities that you have steady stream if income (at least Ä 2,000 per month) plus health insurance plus no police record.
It is somewhat complicated bureaucratic process to be done with the Greek consulate in your country of normal residency.
We survived the process and got a year long visa.
Does it make you a resident of Greece for VAT purposes?
SVNagambie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-07-2021, 17:46   #7
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Croatia
Boat: bavaria 38
Posts: 438
Re: Bilateral Agreements and/or other ways to extend time for Schengen countries

Temporary stay of digital nomads
A DIGITAL NOMAD IS a third-country national who is employed or performs work through communication technology for a company or his own company that is not registered in the Republic of Croatia and does not perform work or provide services to employers in the Republic of Croatia.APPLICATION AND DOCUMENTATION
Copies of documents should be submitted in the Croatian or English language.

1. If you are submitting your application in person, you have to fill in Form 1a (bilingual form), or you can submit your application online.
The following should be enclosed to the application:

2. copy of a valid travel document (period of validity of a travel document must be three months longer than the period of validity of intended stay)

3. proof of health insurance (travel or private health insurance must cover the territory of the Republic of Croatia)

4. proof of purpose (contract of employment or other document proving that the person performs work through communication technology for a foreign employer or his own company which is not registered in the Republic of Croatia), that is
statement from the employer or third-country national (as proof that the person performs work through communication technology), and
contract of employment or service contract with a foreign employer, or
copy of the registration of his own company and proof that he performs the said tasks through his own company

5. proof of means of subsistence during his stay in the Republic of Croatia,
You can submit a bank statement or proof of regular income. Pursuant to the Regulation on the manner of calculating and the amount of means of subsistence for third-country nationals in the Republic of Croatia (Official Gazette no. 14/21), which entered into force on 13 February 2021, third-country nationals who are regulating their temporary stay as digital nomads are required to have the amount corresponding to at least 2.5 average monthly net salaries paid for the previous year, in accordance with the official data published by the Croatian Bureau of Statistics. This amount is increased by 10% of the average monthly net salary for each additional family member or life partner or informal life partner. Currently, the amount required on a monthly basis is a minimum of HRK 16,907.50. More precisely, if you intend to stay in the Republic of Croatia for 12 months, you need to prove that you have a minimum of HRK 202,890.00 available.

6. proof that he/she has not been convicted of criminal offences from his/her home country or a country in which he/she resided for more than one year immediately before arriving in the Republic of Croatia (see Information on the legalization of documents).

7. provide address in the Republic of Croatia
When submitting your application and filling in your form, you will be required to provide your address of stay or of intended stay in the Republic of Croatia. This is important for determining the police administration/police station which is locally competent for processing your application. If this is the first time you are applying and you do not have an address in the Republic of Croatia, you can provide a temporary address as the address of your intended stay (hostel/hotel if you have a reservation/confirmed reservation of accommodation).
https://mup.gov.hr/aliens-281621/sta...-nomads/286833


I THINK Similar rule is for other EU contry
check here
https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-news...in%2030%20days.
more is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-07-2021, 18:52   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Edmonton, AB
Boat: 2021 NEEL 47 (Hull #30)
Posts: 35
Re: Bilateral Agreements and/or other ways to extend time for Schengen countries

Do the Class D visas affect VAT? That is, if you obtain a Class D visa in, say, Spain, does that make you a resident for VAT purposes? And therefore liable to pay VAT on your non-VAT paid boat?
SVNagambie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-07-2021, 22:32   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boat in Greece, Beach cat in Israel
Boat: Lagoon 400 & Nacra 6.0 beach cat
Posts: 1,319
Re: Bilateral Agreements and/or other ways to extend time for Schengen countries

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVNagambie View Post
Do the Class D visas affect VAT? That is, if you obtain a Class D visa in, say, Spain, does that make you a resident for VAT purposes? And therefore liable to pay VAT on your non-VAT paid boat?
No, as far as I know. You are still only a visitor and the boat enjoys the 18 months grace.
Based on the long term visa, you may apply for a resident status (a path we did not take) and only then you will be automatically subject to local VAT.
The officials in the Greek consulate tried to persuade us to get residency when after the first long term visa expired we came for a new one, but we have refused...
__________________
Mark, S/Y Bat-Yam
meirriba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2021, 00:59   #10
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 15,793
Images: 3
Bilateral Agreements and/or other ways to extend time for Schengen countries

If you stay in any one EU country for more the 180 days you ď normally ď are then a tax resident. ( there are other criteria that can put you in the tax net )

At that point the VAT issue appears as you are not entitled to the 18 month exemption and in theory VAT is due immediately

The tax residency rule has nothing to do with visas.

Note typically a residence visa ( and it does so in Greece ) will come with registration for social security identification and typically thatís also a tax number.

In Spain for example owning a house will bring you into the tax net even if you donít stay there for over 180 days.

So you do need to be careful about ď side effects ď
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2021, 04:28   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Boat: Trident marine Voyager 30
Posts: 386
Re: Bilateral Agreements and/or other ways to extend time for Schengen countries

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

In Spain foree example owning a house will bring you into the tax net even if you donít stay there for over 180 days.
It does but I've never heard of anyone actually filing the tax returns and I've never heard of anyone having problems by not filing them
Anders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2021, 06:23   #12
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 15,793
Images: 3
Bilateral Agreements and/or other ways to extend time for Schengen countries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
It does but I've never heard of anyone actually filing the tax returns and I've never heard of anyone having problems by not filing them


Not true. My bother and my mum remit the forms every year and pay the local and property taxes etc. I know of several others doing exactly the same thing

Not doing so stores up unpaid tax and penalties and can seriously hit the return from a sale in the future.
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2021, 07:41   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Edmonton, AB
Boat: 2021 NEEL 47 (Hull #30)
Posts: 35
Re: Bilateral Agreements and/or other ways to extend time for Schengen countries

Quote:
Originally Posted by meirriba View Post
No, as far as I know. You are still only a visitor and the boat enjoys the 18 months grace.
Based on the long term visa, you may apply for a resident status (a path we did not take) and only then you will be automatically subject to local VAT.
The officials in the Greek consulate tried to persuade us to get residency when after the first long term visa expired we came for a new one, but we have refused...
Oh. That is interesting to know. The consulateís information makes it seem like you are required to register for residency.
SVNagambie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2021, 12:44   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boat in Greece, Beach cat in Israel
Boat: Lagoon 400 & Nacra 6.0 beach cat
Posts: 1,319
Re: Bilateral Agreements and/or other ways to extend time for Schengen countries

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVNagambie View Post
Oh. That is interesting to know. The consulateís information makes it seem like you are required to register for residency.
They do say it, but I have read the Greek law, and it is not true...
However, to get the residency you need a valid visa.
What we did, we let our visas expire, waited for three (winter) months, and came to the consulate. While they did want us to apply for residency, they couldn't do it without issuing a new long term visa.
So they did issue a new one and once again told us to apply for residency while the visa is still in force...
We shall see what to do when this one expires😁
meirriba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2021, 12:56   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Idaho
Boat: Moody 45 DS
Posts: 21
Re: Bilateral Agreements and/or other ways to extend time for Schengen countries

Quote:
Originally Posted by meirriba View Post
They do say it, but I have read the Greek law, and it is not true...

However, to get the residency you need a valid visa.

What we did, we let our visas expire, waited for three (winter) months, and came to the consulate. While they did want us to apply for residency, they couldn't do it without issuing a new long term visa.

So they did issue a new one and once again told us to apply for residency while the visa is still in force...

We shall see what to do when this one expires


Meirriba,

When we looked into this one our stumbling block was the requirement for an Address within Greece. Neither the boat, a marina, nor boatyard was considered an acceptable address. Our consulate in the USA recommended we rent an apartment!

How did you work around this address requirement?

Thanks!
Desert Spray is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
men

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc karabil Europe & Mediterranean 35 09-06-2021 09:28
Schengen Bilateral Agreements Dockhead Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 31 30-07-2019 09:58
Visa Issues in Schengen Countries beau Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 37 26-02-2011 14:26

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:24.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.