Bareboat in the Mediterranean

[Kristoff21]

To be honest you could well be right as my opinion is very subjective on that front, as I don't actively seek out places to tie up, I'm an an anchor out kinda guy.

I suppose what I really mean is that I didn't really see may locations whilst sailing where I thought, ohh that looks nice lets go and take a look.

Where as in Greece it always feels to me that every small island you pass has a couple of restaurants and a dockside place to tie up on it. Croatia, at least the area we were in, felt very different. If I'd have bothered to read the pilot books I may well of found some nice places I guess. I see enough of the general public during my my land based daily life though, sailing holidays are about avoiding people for me

[Bullshooter]

Interesting...That brings me to some more questions:

This description of tying off the boat to something on shore (Trees or other sturdy items I assume) would require an anchor to keep you from swinging into the shore. If the holding is too poor to keep you safe at anchor, how are you finding good enough holding to keep the boat off the shore? I think I am missing something here...

Very few charter boats in Croatia seem to have air conditioning. Is that because the weather is nice enough that A/C is not needed? Even in summer?

I read this in a blog: "While the waters of the Mediterranean are too cold for the formation of expansive coral reefs and too warm for the marine life of the waters of northern Europe, the Mediterranean Sea has developed a rich and diverse spectrum of flora and fauna of its own."

Does anyone care to comment on whether we would have noticeably better snorkeling in more southern areas of the Med that might be warm enough tp provide coral reefs?

And based on Kristof's description of the chaos of changeover day- Are there any tips on how to minimize the exposure crowded conditions? Such as getting in super early or....maybe chartering out of a different base?

Thanks again for all the great advice and intel.

[ReneJK]

lots of questions , I will try to answer some and I am sure others will chime in and/or correct me as well

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

This description of tying off the boat to something on shore (Trees or other sturdy items I assume) would require an anchor to keep you from swinging into the shore. If the holding is too poor to keep you safe at anchor, how are you finding good enough holding to keep the boat off the shore? I think I am missing something here...

I have only once tied to shore to prevent swinging , this was in a crowded bay . all other times drop the anchor , set scope , in it reverse until you know you are safe .. same as anywhere else your anchor ?

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

Very few charter boats in Croatia seem to have air conditioning. Is that because the weather is nice enough that A/C is not needed? Even in summer?

it can get (very) hot .. 35-42 celsius and sometimes a bit more , but its never humid and with a seabreeze its doable , and you are correct , AC's are few and far between on yachts and even less of them on charter boats

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

I read this in a blog: "While the waters of the Mediterranean are too cold for the formation of expansive coral reefs and too warm for the marine life of the waters of northern Europe, the Mediterranean Sea has developed a rich and diverse spectrum of flora and fauna of its own."

Does anyone care to comment on whether we would have noticeably better snorkeling in more southern areas of the Med that might be warm enough tp provide coral reefs?

I have never seen or heard of coral reefs in the Med .. you'll have to go south and some more south , through the Suez canal into the Red sea to find coral . Please do not expect tropical snorkel / dive spots in the Med , Ive never seen them

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

And based on Kristof's description of the chaos of changeover day- Are there any tips on how to minimize the exposure crowded conditions? Such as getting in super early or....maybe chartering out of a different base?

Croatia changeover days are hectic , no matter where you charter , to prevent this you would be wise to fuel up a day in advance (save the fuel ticket , most charter co's want to see you really did fuel up) or super early as you suggested .

Greece , Italy , France , Spain , Turkey etc I have never chartered so I dont know how changeover days are there but I can imagine that its pretty much the same everywhere in the popular charter areas ?

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

Thanks again for all the great advice and intel.

[Bullshooter]

Thanks ReneJK!

[Kristoff21]

I can't figure out the quote thing, so I'll try to just answer your questions roughly in order....

Anchoring - the main problem is the fact the bottom, in all the places we anchored at least, was rock with a thin layer of sand, and/or seagrass/weed of some type. The additional problem being that charter boats invariably have poor ground tackle to start with.

Running a line, or lines, astern to rocks stops the boat rotating about its anchor an dragging it all overt the anchorage. We always tied to whichever was the windward shore so we were being (if anything) blown off. The boats bow anchor effectively acting as a kedge. Sounds weird but worked fine and its sheer weight (of the anchor plus 6+1 scope of chain) being enough to keep the bow in the right place. This only worked I guess because the anchorages are so well protected and the wind direction was predictable.

We also anchored in no more than 3-4m of depth each night so a couple of times when we were in the middle of a larger lagoon we were able to dive the anchor and physically wedge it by hand into an old mooring (concrete tyre or some very heavy chain left on the bottom - most anchorages have this old crap on the ground)

Watch chafe on your stern line, you can use the chain for the kedge anchor to ensure that the sharp rocks don't cut the stern line. Or just use the kedge and wedge it into the rocks by hand. Means a more arduous trip in the dingy though.

I'll add that no amount of setting, resetting and backing down would set the boats undersized (and fake) CQR anchor into many of the grounds that we tried.

Air con- don't think it's even an option, although you won't need it, always seemed to be a nice breeze at night and I was never too hot.


Changeover day chaos- The simple way to avoid it is just come in a day early (change over day is usually Saturday so come in on Friday) . Get your fuel Friday afternoon when it's quiet and then spend the last night of your trip in the marina.

I say embrace the madness though, it's the best way to learn, and plus it's not your boat. The very worst thing that can happen is that you have to pay out £1,000 in damage excess. And that won't happen, the worst thing that will really happen is you cock up when docking for fuel and look like an idiot, well don't worry, you'll be in good company!

If you're not living life on the edge then you're taking up too much space.


The main thing that I liked about Croatia was the sailing was better than Greece, more challenging, with a real need to watch the water ahead for changes in wind.

Last year me and a pal chartered in Malta for a week and it was a totally different holiday, very easy sailing around an island and quality sandy anchorages, its an easier place to go if you don't fancy Croatia, but to be honest Croatia was more fun if you want to really sail.

Her's a short video I made of the Malta trip, haven't had time to edit the Croaita footage yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JltsavcD68I

[Bullshooter]

Thanks Kristoff, good tips. Malta looks pretty nice too! May have to go there some day as well.

[iscariot]

1. I got home from Croatia last week. Temperature of water 22, air - 24. Air temperature decreased to 16 degrees C at night. If you are talking about summer period then weather can be app 35-38. Water could be differ rent. It depends of the month. App. From 20 to 26. So, I suppose that a/c is not necessary at Adriatic Sea.

2. As for a corals and snorkeling I suppose that you will not find corals there and snorkeling seems boring for you there.

3. As for a changeover day chaos - a lot depends on charter company which you will choose. Mostly this companies owned by German or Austrian investors and in this case amount of difficulties will be minimized. Otherwise you should be ready with maximum of papers such as contracts, insurances, video registration etc. Do not forget about positive relationship. It is a first aid at any situation

That is some vid (sorry for off top):
https://youtu.be/s7QOPqlN7AA

[iscariot]

Well, Bullshooter, here is my short notes as for your first post:

1. As for a period of visit I would recommend you period from middle of September to middle of October. Crowd of people decreased but air temperature is comfortable 24-28C and water is warm 22-24. Summer is hot and overcrowded. At Spring could be cold water app.16-20degrees. Winter is blowing hard and has storms with uncomfortable short waves.

You are well informed about names of the typical mid winds but Croatia has Bora wind which is typical for late autumn and winter and can blow for a week period. Meltemi is a Greek and Turkish wind. It's strong and unpredictable but duration of it from couple of hours to 1 day.

2. At the middeterian sea for the first-timer it's better to start from Balearic Islands: Mayorka, Menorka, Ibiza, Formentera. It's a Spain. But your way there will be a little bit longer because you should get to air hub and after that transfer to the small local airport. From the listed countries I would try Grecce. The biggest marina there is Alimos Near Athens. The biggest chartering company of this marina is Kavas yachting (it's easy to find them by Internet). They have biggest fleet to choose and they really care about clients (as for a Greeks). You should understand that southern people of mid very lazy. But Greeks are very-very lazy. That's why I recommend you Spanish start. From Alimos in a period of 1-2 weeks you can visit such islands like Epidavros, Poros, Ermiony, Methana, Hidra. Most of them deserves several days to look old memorials of Rome and Greek culture.

3. As for a formal side of the question. The most strict is Croatia. They could ask not only for the skipper license but VHF certificate. Besides if you want to sail to Italy you should have separate permission for the boat to get offshore. 1 of your crew should has competent crew certificate at Croatia at least. Other countries from your list less attentive to your papers. It is doesn't matter RYA, ICC or IYT certificate will you have. Other chartering companies write at the contract that all risks and responsibility at the skipper. So nobody cares about your crew but you.

I suppose I was useful.

Yeah, can help you with phones and names of charter companies from Croatia if you decide.

[chuckr]

Originally Posted by CHS_JDE

We are rookie bareboaters. Have crewed for a couple weeks out of Athens and done courses (ASA through 105)/charters in the US, but nothing in the Med. Interested to know if there are locations in the Med that are within our reach and which ones are better. Competent sailors but haven't done much bareboating with inexperienced crew. Thanks.

Not sure what you mean "within your reach". Out of anywhere in the Greece/Turkey area you can have some good cruising if you watch the weather and plan properly.
but please define "within our reach".

[Bullshooter]

We are getting close to reserving a charter from Croatia in June. There are a lot of choices in Split, which I believe is close to air travel. One thing we may want to do is a one-way trip to Dubrovnik, if the extra cost is not too high. The wind rose for that month seems to show predominantly SW winds, putting travel along that coast advantageous for a beam reach either way.

We are only chartering for a week, so I am looking for any feedback on this Split to Dubrovnik choice, versus other options, such as Dubrovnik to Split or other. Any input is appreciated.

[OzDean]

Based on previous cruising visits, if I had a week in Croatia I would base out/in from Split and visit: Bol, Hvar, Vis (blue grotto caves) and some anchorages in between. Only if time/weather allows then either up to Sibenik and lovely trip into Skradin or up to Kornati Islands, depends how much you like sailing and long days. If you take the one way from Split down to Dubrovnik the sailing will likely be easier (reachng), I would stop at Korcula and Polace (national park), however the main attraction of the one way down is Dubrovnik itself and you don't need a boat to visit it. Having said all that if I have exactly one week I would prefer to NOT rush and therefore stay closer to Split, for example spend 2 nights at Hvar and choose isolated anchorages eg on Brac or Palinski. Also by the time you visit the Blue Grotto caves out from Vis (must visit during the morning) it is easy to spend 2 nights at Viz. Then you will have a holiday

[Bullshooter]

Great, that is helpful. Thanks OzDean.

[Bullshooter]

Speaking of Croatia, I was trying to find out if navigation maps of the Dalmatian coast are available online, as they are in the U.S. Here we can get free maps from NOAA that can be used in OpenCPN. Is there a similar site for maps in the Croatia area?

[glocklt4]

Is anyone able to confirm whether the ASA IPC which states "Endorsements: VHF Radio" is sufficient by itself for Croatia? We are renting with Angelina Yacht Charter and they have said that it is, but I am not sure that is sufficient if we were stopped by some maritime officials. Trying to be 100% on the up & up.

If it's NOT sufficient, any suggestions on where I can get a certification online? Our charter is in 3 weeks. Thanks!

[glocklt4]

Update: I found other references saying you need a Restricted Radiotelegraph Operators Permit from the FCC, so I was able to pay $70 and got that submitted. Just waiting on approval and will take that with me just in case.