Anchoring in Croatia?

[Smiling]

I sailed the central dalmatian islands 2012.
Fantastic, but however i tried i simply couldnt anchor safely. We dragged in all the places we tried!
Is the seabed made of concrete or what?
The anchor was a std Bruce~type.
Please help. I`m going down there again.

[bobconnie]

Maybe an anchor with a Little more point on it ! Some bottoms are hard to stick with a Bruce, even harder with a Bruce copy! Even a CQR would be better then a bruce copy in any bottom. just my 2 cents

[Smiling]

Thank you for replying.
Unfortunately theres no option on charterboats. The anchor comes with the boat.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Smiling

I sailed the central dalmatian islands 2012.
Fantastic, but however i tried i simply couldnt anchor safely. We dragged in all the places we tried!
Is the seabed made of concrete or what?
The anchor was a std Bruce~type.
Please help. I`m going down there again.

I found there was lots of weed in most spots.
Obviously try and find sandy patches (pale) to drop, but if dropping in weed is unavoidable, your setting technique needs to be spot on and be prepared it may take several attempts.

- With the boat pointing into wind, drop the anchor to the bottom rather than lowering it - you have a greater chance it will penetrate the weed.

- Don't drop the chain all in a heap, but do not let the boat move back at a speed any greater than the speed the chain is being laid out, as the anchor will then drag and pick up a ball of weed and it will then never set.

- When you have laid out about three times the sum of the distance from your bow roller to the water plus the depth of water (remember to add keel depth if you depth sounder is programmed to only read the depth below this), pick a couple of transit points abeam and apply a touch of reverse. Once holding, increase revs to about a 1000 for about 10 seconds. (Some people skip this step, but I find the anchor sets best if allowed to dig in slightly at 3:1 initially)

- If your transit points are not moving in relation to each other, let out more chain until you have at least five times the sum of the depth of water plus the distance to your bow roller. This will generally hold you in 25 knots. Increase scope to 7:1 if more wind is expected.

- Gently reverse until the chain is taut, then slowly increase the revs, watching your transits. Once around 2000 revs is reached maintain for 20 seconds.

- Repeat if you have not held.

This is my standard anchor procedure, but I find it is particularly important to follow this when anchoring in weed.

Have a wonderful sailing holiday .

[goboatingnow]

The answer is in your post OP, " Bruce "


Dave

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The answer is in your post OP, " Bruce "
Dave

It certainly doesn't help, but whatever anchor the OP is provided with during his charter, he needs to maximise his odds. And there is nothing to say he will have a Bruce next charter.

During our time in Croatia when wind strength increased to 20-25 knots, at least 50% of the boats at anchor dragged, some repeatedly. Few had Bruce anchors. Most had appalling anchoring technique .

[boatman61]

Hi.. in areas with weed one usually finds clear patches of sand... mooch around till you find a clearish spot then drop the hook...
don't let it run free.. feed and control the run so as it more or less runs in a line as the boat falls back with the wind, once you've a couple of boat lengths of chain (+ depth) out stop and hold till the weight comes on and the nose starts to swing into the wind then feed out another length... let her settle and face the wind... check your bearings and wait a few minutes... give the hook a chance to bite with its own weight through and crap on the bottom... if you like you can then feed another half length for insurance...
I'm assuming its an all chain set up... if its something like 15m chain and then rope... your screwed..
Contrary to most on here I believe in letting the hook do the work... not the engine.. that's what they 'used to' be designed to do back when not every boat had an engine..
But with all these 'New kids on the Block'...

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Contrary to most on here I believe in letting the hook do the work... not the engine.. that's what they 'used to' be designed to do back when not every boat had an engine..
But with all these 'New kids on the Block'...

This technique doesn't work anchoring in still conditions. Also, back in the 'good ol' days' anchor watches were set up for a good reason when the wind picked up .

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

This technique doesn't work anchoring in still conditions. Also, back in the 'good ol' days' anchor watches were set up for a good reason when the wind picked up .

In still conditions one motors slowly till you find your spot, go around again and as you make the final approach to drop the hook go into neutral and as the hook goes down put the helm hard over... the weigh on will act pretty much the same... the secret is... don't be doing 5 knots..
usually 1-1.5 knots is enough... she'll swing to face after the first feed of chain... then you can gently feed the rest with brief 10sec bursts in reverse...
Nothing funnier than loadsa boats going full out in reverse trying to get a hook to dig..

Interesting thought though... now we have engines we don't need an anchor watch...

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Interesting thought though... now we have engines we don't need an anchor watch...

LOL. Works for me .

Basically the techniques we have described are very similar. I use only a gentle amount of reverse (or none if it is windy) until the final set. In weed it is particularly important not to barrel back, as all this does is pick up a ball of weed.

Unless it is blowing 25+ knots I find the final reverse to check set is important though as it really gets the anchor to dig in. Generally holding for 20 sec at 2000 revs translates to peace of mind to about 30 knots (anchor alarm is set regardless).

I have had 2000 odd nights at anchor over the last few years and not dragged once .

Edited to add: Sorry, just remembered we dragged once - rocky substrate, I noted the anchor had not dug in well when snorkelling. The wind unexpectedly pioed up to 45 knots in the night and we found ourselves sliding backwards (we held until then). I needed no reverse when we re-anchored in those conditions.

[Andrew Troup]

If you drag any distance while trying to set an anchor in weed, it's advisable to bring it back to the surface to check and if necessary clear away the ball of weed it may have accumulated.

Same after dragging in a bad gust.

Something I've never had to do (but it remains on the Options menu as an emergency backup), is to drop a temporary marker buoy (which can be improvised from a plastic bottle and a rock on each end of a line), and purposely drag the anchor around and immediately downwind of that spot (a grapple would be better and much easier to handle, but you won't get one of those on most charter boats) several times, to create your own little personalised bald patch.

Some would say this is environmental vandalism, but you're confining your impact to a small area compared with the damage you'd do dragging all over the bay.

Some types of weed are more prone to collecting on an anchor, and defeating its ability to hold, than others.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

LOL. Works for me .

Basically the techniques we have described are very similar. I use only a gentle amount of reverse (or none if it is windy) until the final set. In weed it is particularly important not to barrel back, as all this does is pick up a ball of weed.

Unless it is blowing 25+ knots I find the final reverse to check set is important though as it really gets the anchor to dig in. Generally holding for 20 sec at 2000 revs translates to peace of mind to about 30 knots (anchor alarm is set regardless).

I have had 2000 odd nights at anchor over the last few years and not dragged once .

Wait till you get to Pago Pago... they carpet the bottom there...
short pile is really hard to dig into...

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Andrew Troup

If you drag any distance while trying to set an anchor in weed, it's advisable to bring it back to the surface to check and if necessary clear away the ball of weed it may have accumulated.

Same after dragging in a bad gust.

Yes, this is critical. It's important to check the anchor is clear each time before dropping on any substrate actually, as it is easy for items like plastic bags (and we even had a tree branch once) getting caught up and preventing the anchor from digging in.

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by boatman61

....she'll swing to face after the first feed of chain... then you can gently feed the rest with brief 10sec bursts in reverse...
Nothing funnier than loadsa boats going full out in reverse trying to get a hook to dig..

I think a distillation of this (and Seaworthy's similar advice) should be carved on the bulkhead, on any boat using a Bruce:

DO NOT PULL MY CHAIN UNTIL I TELL YOU !

By that I mean: Bruce anchors do NOT like sustained force until they're properly dug in, at least in some bottoms. *

Do not expect to be able to copy what you might see someone doing when successfully setting a new-Gen anchor in the same anchorage.

The first few times you apply maximum thrust in reverse should be a few seconds only, gradually increasing in duration at each repetition, until you can feel that there is no 'sogginess' in the way the load is accepted.

In really difficult bottoms, there needs to be a long pause between repetitions.

(Long pauses may not achieve much if the anchor is light in relation to what's expected of it, but for heavy Bruces it does seem to pay dividends. It's ideal if wind and wave cause the boat to 'nuzzle' at the anchor from slightly different angles during this process, to gentle it into the bottom)

This might seem like a lot of trouble, but it's nowhere near as much trouble as dragging is.

- - - -

* I think that's why they underperform in many anchor tests, relative to their real-world performance for people who understand this limitation.

They also don't set particularly well at a very long scope, in hard bottoms.

This combination of characteristics would make them a worrisome proposition if they were to completely break out in a consistently strong blow. Luckily they're very unlikely to do this, once they're fully dug in.

Once this is accomplished they're remarkably good, in my experience and testing, at "walking around" in the same hole, if they get loaded beyond endurance from a new direction.

[Smiling]

hi
The problem l had was the hard seabed. The bruceanchor wasnt good enough. i tried lots of anchoringtechniques. i`ve sailed my entire life. I did however got the anchor good one time. Then it got stuck in a crevice and we were safe overnight in hard wind 17 kt. We almost couldn't get it up the next morning. Took us an hour to get it up:-) So. Is the seabed made of concrete?