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Old 29-03-2020, 10:35   #1
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Volunteering Survivors

Medical personnel are overwhelmed. Lay people are not generally needed or wanted in the medical environment, but this SHOULD BE AN EXCEPTION. There are many roles where ordinary people of reasonable intelligence could be employed as volunteers to lighten the load on medical personnel and to give comfort to patients in isolation or near death.
There are few more dreadful prospects than to face death in total isolation from your fellow humans. Without a touch, without someone to look in your eyes and hold your hand, communicating caring, hope, comfort, and encouragement, now swathed from head to toe in a level three biohazard suit. This is something recovered people could do. In the ER, awaiting treatment, a kind word or two, a hug, someone who isn't terrified of you like the lepers in days of old, even administering the nasal swab test.
Isolation should be group isolation with a common room, and lounge for people who are able to function. It should allow outdoor activity.... say a park sealed off from the public. It should offer internet access video communication with family and friends. It should bring humanity and hope, not just four walls and dread.

Those who have recovered are the one group of people capable of adding some humanity to this process.


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Old 29-03-2020, 15:18   #2
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Re: Volunteering Survivors

Good idea, owly.

I'd like to add that people who have survived the corona virus have antibodies in their blood. They can arrange to donate blood for plasma to help infected patients. Probably, the major hospitals are already trying to recruit such donors. China was doing it by then end of February.

This is, of course, for developed countries. This disease is going to be a huge tragedy in Africa, and everyone is busy with their own patients. It is so very sad to imagine....

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Old 29-03-2020, 15:57   #3
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Re: Volunteering Survivors

While being well meaning, the reality is that the ICU is not a place for untrained persons and with the added issue of drastic shortage of PPE the priority has to go to protection of the professionals not involvement of laypersons.

The hospitals utilize full quarantine protocols. Family and friends are not allowed into the hospitals, let alone into an ICU under these circumstances. Visitations into an ICU are kept to a minimum during the best of circumstances. There are no visitations.

When a person is intubated so as to be placed on a ventilator they are given an anesthetic so as to be unconscious and are often kept in a state of medically induced coma to ease the trauma and discomfort. Many of the persons that have COVID-19 and develop ARDS will die and the last person they see when conscious will be the anesthesiologist. To aid in their breathing, the patients are kept in pronation most of the day, facedown, even if conscious they are not seeing what is happening.
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Old 29-03-2020, 16:23   #4
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Re: Volunteering Survivors

Volunteers with immunity will be useful in many places, not just the front lines.

Note that the immune can still physically transport virus from place to placeon their clothing, hands etc, so a potential volunteer must consider whether they might pose a risk to members of their own families who aren't yet immune.
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Old 29-03-2020, 16:30   #5
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Re: Volunteering Survivors

Volunteers could be used in some capacity.

Agree that we likely don't need them in ICUs or hospitals. You know what stresses out healthcare workers? Having people around who don't know what they're doing.

Even people who have already had COVID 19 can still spread the disease inadvertently to patients or their families if they aren't properly trained. Having had the disease doesn't mean you can't be part of the problem.

We certainly could use them at Amazon. We'll even pay them to pack boxes or to drive trucks. We could use them working in supermarkets. Sure could use them to keep the toilet paper racks full.

We could use them in transporting goods. But mostly, we need them to continue to social distance, and not spread COVID 19 germs. Stay off the streets for a month. Please.
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Old 29-03-2020, 16:45   #6
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Re: Volunteering Survivors

The harsh reality. This in New York and which is being repeated across the globe. The bodies are generally cremated or buried by the authorities with no funeral. Funeral homes do not deal with infected bodies for obvious reasons, the bodies and body bags are handled as hazardous biological remains, vectors of disease.

Prepare yourselves mentally as it will be quite likely that you will know one of the persons that pass away.

"The male emergency room nurse, who asked to remain unidentified (along with the hospital where he works), revealed he took the photo of the adhoc morgue while leaving a shift on Sunday morning.

"I took it to show to people," the nurse said adding, "It is the ghastly reality of what we deal with and where some of us have ended up already."

The photo shows a refrigerated truck, one of four parked outside of the hospital's ambulance bay and filled with deceased coronavirus patients, according to the nurse.

He revealed that inside the truck was the body of one of his recent patients, a 71-year-old woman who died of coronavirus-related complicatioins on Saturday night. According to the nurse, he was with her when she died.

"I never had the patience to sit with somebody I'd just met until they took their last breath. But I really liked this lady's cardigan and pajamas so I decided to stay and get to know her a little," he said over text to Buzzfeed News.

"Her hair was elegantly done with a sharp, meticulous clip and casually pulled up with a bandana that matched her house clothes," he continued. "Perhaps if she'd covered her face with it instead, she wouldn't have ended up here in the first place. But she didn't die alone."

According to the nurse, the 71-year-old patient tested positive for the virus a week ago and was sent home, but returned on Saturday complaining of shortness of breath. He told Buzzfeed News that she asked not to be intubated, and died overnight after trouble breathing.

The nurse, who is Jewish, likened the grim picture he snapped to images from the Holocaust.

"Maybe as a Jew i relate it to all of the Holocaust footage because that's my only point of reference for such an image of humans," he told Buzzfeed News over text. "Never seen something quite like it."

I recall in 1986 the cemetery workers in California went on strike for months, so there were no burials. My mom passed away and her remains were put in a freezer. 6 weeks later we were able to have a funeral. The cemetery in the Bay Area was knee high in grass and they had let cattle into the grounds so as to try to keep the grass from growing waist high. Kind of extended the grieving and deferred closure for our family not being able to bury her for quite a long time. But at least we were able to finally have a funeral. Not so with COVID-19.
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Old 29-03-2020, 16:54   #7
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Re: Volunteering Survivors

In Western Australia there is since 17-03-20 a recruitment drive, a hotline, where volunteers, retired nurses, doctors, admin staff, scientists etc. can register their interest. I have heard as from mid last week there were about 2000 registrations since then. In WA this recruitment is centralised.

https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/Careers
Hmmm, that is very convoluted way, there is another webpage somewhere, will post that later.

In addition to that, the state government here in WA has called on other volunteer organisations (like sea rescue, SES, bush fire brigade) to assist police with roadblocks, starting tomorrow Tuesday night.

Regarding untrained volunteers assisting in patient settings: very unlikely to be Covid patients, maybe in other parts of the hospital? As Montana said, no untrained staff with very unwell patients, like in ICU.

Disclaimer: I am a nurse, and working as nurse manager of a hospital
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Old 29-03-2020, 17:56   #8
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Re: Volunteering Survivors

Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
Volunteers could be used in some capacity.

Agree that we likely don't need them in ICUs or hospitals. You know what stresses out healthcare workers? Having people around who don't know what they're doing.

Even people who have already had COVID 19 can still spread the disease inadvertently to patients or their families if they aren't properly trained. Having had the disease doesn't mean you can't be part of the problem.

We certainly could use them at Amazon. We'll even pay them to pack boxes or to drive trucks. We could use them working in supermarkets. Sure could use them to keep the toilet paper racks full.

We could use them in transporting goods. But mostly, we need them to continue to social distance, and not spread COVID 19 germs. Stay off the streets for a month. Please.



Clearly those who are no longer shedding virus can only carry it on their bodies or clothing. it seems that this is something that can be overcome fairly easily with proper practice before someone who has been working among the sick again enters the general populace. There is little reason why they could not be put up in a "safe house" dorm as an added layer of protection.......... Service often involves some sacrifice. Your family needn't worry about you as they would a medical professional who is not immune. Keeping touch with family and friends by phone, video chat, facebook, etc for the duration of your service is not huge sacrifice....Soldiers to this all the time. Service is a universally recognized human obligation, and many would answer the call if they felt they could do good. The medical profession is hard pressed dealing with this. It of course would be up to them to decide if and how to deploy volunteers who have immunity, and knowledgable people to come up with the protocols for preventing inadvertent spread. They soon may not be able to do it alone.



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Old 29-03-2020, 18:13   #9
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Re: Volunteering Survivors

Quote:
Originally Posted by owly View Post
Clearly those who are no longer shedding virus can only carry it on their bodies or clothing. it seems that this is something that can be overcome fairly easily with proper practice before someone who has been working among the sick again enters the general populace. There is little reason why they could not be put up in a "safe house" dorm as an added layer of protection.......... Service often involves some sacrifice. Your family needn't worry about you as they would a medical professional who is not immune. Keeping touch with family and friends by phone, video chat, facebook, etc for the duration of your service is not huge sacrifice....Soldiers to this all the time. Service is a universally recognized human obligation, and many would answer the call if they felt they could do good. The medical profession is hard pressed dealing with this. It of course would be up to them to decide if and how to deploy volunteers who have immunity, and knowledgable people to come up with the protocols for preventing inadvertent spread. They soon may not be able to do it alone.

H.W.
There are plenty of places where we need volunteers.

People with health care experience are likely the best folks for hospitals. I'm sure there will also be roles for other interested parties as well.

But there's merit to your idea of using folks that have already been infected. But we do need to be a bit wary of thinking that folks who have already had it can't spread it.
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Old 29-03-2020, 18:18   #10
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Re: Volunteering Survivors

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
... I'd like to add that people who have survived the corona virus have antibodies in their blood. They can arrange to donate blood for plasma to help infected patients...
Whether one is immune to a second bout of covid19 hasn't been confirmed. Nor is the idea of using a surviving patient's blood plasma (yes a trial of this procedure has just started in the USA). There are considerable sources available to support this point; here's a link to New Scientist.

And there may or may not be two strains; again refer New Scientist published 14 March 2020. But we know there will be genetic evolution/mutation, whatever you prefer to call it.

But I agree with the sentiment of the idea of people helping in hospitals, aged care facilities etc. And it may not just be those who've survived the disease. Medical staff are at high risk of succumbing to the disease and do die of it. Yesterday The Independent reported 50 doctors have died in Italy as a direct result of catching covid19.
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Old 29-03-2020, 18:18   #11
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Re: Volunteering Survivors

Quote:
Originally Posted by owly View Post
Clearly those who are no longer shedding virus can only carry it on their bodies or clothing. it seems that this is something that can be overcome fairly easily with proper practice before someone who has been working among the sick again enters the general populace. There is little reason why they could not be put up in a "safe house" dorm as an added layer of protection.......... Service often involves some sacrifice. Your family needn't worry about you as they would a medical professional who is not immune. Keeping touch with family and friends by phone, video chat, facebook, etc for the duration of your service is not huge sacrifice....Soldiers to this all the time. Service is a universally recognized human obligation, and many would answer the call if they felt they could do good. The medical profession is hard pressed dealing with this. It of course would be up to them to decide if and how to deploy volunteers who have immunity, and knowledgable people to come up with the protocols for preventing inadvertent spread. They soon may not be able to do it alone.
H.W.
FWIW:
-it's not clear for how long an infected person can shed virus
-it's not clear how/why some people get sick again after being recently infected

These points would make on-scene assistance from people who have been infected problematic as it could increase infection/re-infection both ways.

For sure otherwise a great idea...talking to someone who has just gotten better from something you fear may kill you is a great help.
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Old 29-03-2020, 18:32   #12
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Re: Volunteering Survivors

While it sounds like a good idea, people who have recovered and previously tested negative are beginning to show positive now in China, itís postulated that they have become carriers, they are immune but carry the disease, Typhoid Maryís if you will.
If thatís true then of course they are as bad or worse that patients with active Covid.
So far as I know thought there is no evidence of that, beyond the fact that they are now testing positive without symptoms.
My WAG is in places that are hard hit itís going to peak and declining in a month or two, then will it become seasonal? Will there be a round two? There is precedence for that.
But I donít believe incinerations of bodies at hospitals, without the families knowledge and no funeral
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Old 29-03-2020, 18:34   #13
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Re: Volunteering Survivors

In much the same way as this post shows what we can do with our isolation, we do just need to be open to ways we can help, when the time has come that we are not under enforced isolation.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ra-232060.html

Right now, we are under the 2 people rule, effective midnight tonight. Australia is still in the steep part of the curve, and hoping to begin to "flatten the curve" in about 2 weeks' time, if our self quarantining does its job. All travel has been restricted for about one week.

America is struggling to do the same.

It is time for everyone of good will to pull together.

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Old 29-03-2020, 21:28   #14
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Re: Volunteering Survivors

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Whether one is immune to a second bout of covid19 hasn't been confirmed. Nor is the idea of using a surviving patient's blood plasma (yes a trial of this procedure has just started in the USA). There are considerable sources available to support this point; here's a link to New Scientist.

And there may or may not be two strains; again refer New Scientist published 14 March 2020. But we know there will be genetic evolution/mutation, whatever you prefer to call it.

But I agree with the sentiment of the idea of people helping in hospitals, aged care facilities etc. And it may not just be those who've survived the disease. Medical staff are at high risk of succumbing to the disease and do die of it. Yesterday The Independent reported 50 doctors have died in Italy as a direct result of catching covid19.

There are currently 8 strains of the virus circulating.
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Old 30-03-2020, 03:18   #15
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Re: Volunteering Survivors

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Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
There are plenty of places where we need volunteers.
People with health care experience are likely the best folks for hospitals. I'm sure there will also be roles for other interested parties as well.
But there's merit to your idea of using folks that have already been infected. But we do need to be a bit wary of thinking that folks who have already had it can't spread it.
Indeed.
See also ➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3104731

Let's not forget the 'Law of Unintended Consequences'.
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