The Reality of Living in Australia and Covid

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Although injected into humans for study earlier. 2007
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17476302/

Thanks for the link.

Number of participants were not included:
“After injection into the human dermis, we could document the translation of the exogenous mRNA. Our results pave the way toward the use of mRNA as a vehicle for transient gene delivery in humans.”

I have tried where possible to provide links to papers in reputable journals to support my comments. This lead me to finding the paper I reported.

This does not detract from the fact that last year Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine was the first mRNA vaccine of any kind to receive provisional/conditional/emergency approval (designation has varied between countries) and that clinical trials are incomplete.

It also does not detract the fact that these vaccines have been lifesaving for the vulnerable and risk/benefit is overwhelmingly in their favour for this group. My concern is the use of these vaccines where risk of severe disease is extremely low, specifically the healthy young.

SWL

[El Pinguino]

It would appear that possibly the world's very last 'Covid Zero' holdout has capitulated.
Jacinda has said this afternoon that it's no longer 'Covid Zero' in NZ but 'Hard Suppression'.

Unlike Australia where at least the progressive states have embraced vaccination she has had major issues with Maori and Pasifika rejection - led largely by fundimentalist church leader Brian Tamika ( I'll let you do your own research on him).

Oh well, those are the communities who shall suffer.

https://www.theage.com.au/world/ocea...04-p58x1a.html

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Thanks for the link.

Number of participants were not included:
....

Not really relevant how many particapants. I only posted the article as a response to your implication than mRna into humans was only 4 years old, adding to your 'it's experimental' argument.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Wotname

A million dollars on offer...plus other enticements for Aussie vaccinators



https://milliondollarvax.com



and



https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/coro...20-%2020211004

Quiet Wottie, the more who enroll the lower our chance of winning.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Not really relevant how many particapants. I only posted the article as a response to your implication than mRna into humans was only 4 years old, adding to your 'it's experimental' argument.

What else do you call a drug or vaccine not fully tested? Clinical trials are incomplete.

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

It also does not detract the fact that these vaccines have been lifesaving for the vulnerable and risk/benefit is overwhelmingly in their favour for this group. My concern is the use of these vaccines where risk of severe disease is extremely low, specifically the healthy young.

mRNA vaccines are not the only vaccines on offer, including for the young.

Aus has, perhaps because of choices made by politicians to align strategically with the US, ignored traditional inactivated virus vaccines such as the Sinovac Coronavac (which Aus has now recognised, probably because Aus universities are quite dependent on export education to students from China). That's the technology regarded as safe as houses that had produced almost every anti-virus vaccine you've ever received up until now.

Nature magazine, published by Springer, has a pleasant story attempting to essay the tangled history of mRNA vaccines. See: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w

A good search internet engine will deliver to you the US patents on the ground-breaking technology, including those of Katalin Kariko and Drew Weissman.

Astonishing commitment and accomplishment by Kariko and Weissman, worthy of unstinting praise, should you want my assessment.

And to think that Katalin Kariko was once known to the wider public only because of her daughter!

Don't forget also that Robert Malone started talking about the potential of RNA as a medication in the late 1980s when he was at UC Davis/Salk Institute as a PhD candidate.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

What else do you call a drug or vaccine not fully tested? Clinical trials are incomplete.

Since there is no hard definition of 'not fully tested' you are just saying that it doesn't meet your definition therefore it is just black or white in your world - fully tested or experimental. Clinical trials have been done and completed, while other clinical trials are still going on.
Think how many drugs that have been in wide use for a decade or more still have studies performed on them. It's a moving target where medicine tries to deliver the best, available treatment over time. Using labels in this case like experimental is just hyperbole. Wrapping them with lots of references doesn't change anything.

[El Pinguino]

Sinopharm has just been OKed for 3 year olds in Argentina.
https://en.mercopress.com/2021/10/02...uthorities-say

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Sinopharm has just been OKed for 3 year olds in Argentina.
https://en.mercopress.com/2021/10/02...uthorities-say

Also Novavax COVID-19 vaccine may be available soon in Australia. This vaccine uses part of the virus (engineered) to stimulate the immune response. The way it works is close to the other traditional type of vaccines that use either live attenuated or inactivated virus (such as Sinopharm).

The body reacts directly to these vaccines rather than being stimulated to make part of the virus as it does with mRNA and DNA vaccines.

This month Novavax announced their submission to the WHO for emergency use of their COVID-19 Vaccine:
https://ir.novavax.com/2021-09-23-No...-Vaccine?asPDF

Australia has a supply agreement in place:
“If the TGA approves this vaccine for use in Australia, we expect 51 million doses will be available in late 2021.”
https://www.health.gov.au/initiative...ine-agreements
Wonder what they will do with them? This alternative has not been widely publicised.

SWL

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

What else do you call a drug or vaccine not fully tested? Clinical trials are incomplete.

Like I said there is no hard definition of fully tested, so you are just making a black and white argument in a situation that is not black and white. The vaccines in use are not experimental, as the nedical staff administering them are not conducting an experiment. Some clinical trials are complete while others continue on while still more will undoubtedly be started at later dates. This does not make the vaccine an experiment and using the label is just hyperbole, even if couched in pseudo well reasoned arguments.

[El Pinguino]

Some early morning reading for some - why NZ will struggle to get high vax rates.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/1265...covid-nonsense

[chrisr]

some more info from the real world

we're in maclean at the moment (on the clarence river). tried to go to the pub last night, to meet some locals for a few drinks.

covid security demanded to see ID with a home address. we explained that we lived onboard and did not have any home address. as we could not 'prove' we did not reside in a lockdown area we were refused entry

think it might be just this one pub being over cautious, as we've not had such problem elsewhere...but still very frustrating

any cruising live-aboards had similar problems 'proving' where you live ? how do you deal with it ?

cheers,

[El Pinguino]

Latest Auckland update

[GILow]

A reasonable summary of the last week or two in Oz. I'd put it in the joke thread but actually it's no joke...

https://youtu.be/cxFMlk0gYyQ

[GILow]

Originally Posted by chrisr

some more info from the real world

we're in maclean at the moment (on the clarence river). tried to go to the pub last night, to meet some locals for a few drinks.

covid security demanded to see ID with a home address. we explained that we lived onboard and did not have any home address. as we could not 'prove' we did not reside in a lockdown area we were refused entry

think it might be just this one pub being over cautious, as we've not had such problem elsewhere...but still very frustrating

any cruising live-aboards had similar problems 'proving' where you live ? how do you deal with it ?

cheers,

I spent two hours on the phone yesterday dealing with various Australian government departments on this very issue. They were understanding, sympathetic, keen to help and utterly and totally useless at finding any kind of a solution.

Being in transit between states right at this moment in time is very, very problematic. The only "solution" they could offer was to present myself to one of their various offices, except they acknowledge that to do so would stuff up my quarantine process.

Waiting on, of all people, a government appointed social worker to call me in two days because they seem to be the only people with any authority to apply special circumstances settings to my situation.

On the upside, I never go to pubs anyway, so I don't have that particular problem.