The Reality of Living in Australia and Covid

[sailingabe41ds]

I could put up with Covid Vaccine killing 13,000 in the US, and about 15,000 in Europe according to VAERS and the equivalent reporting system in Europe. I could put up with the vaccine sending 40-60,000 people into the hospital for life threatening events....more than all other vaccines combined in the last thirty years! I can put up with the fact that the vaccine is so "effective" that vaccinated people need boosters every 4 months and that 60% of the people in the ICU in Israel are vaccinated....
BUT I will now DRAW THE LINE. When Australia is now confiscating alcohol, limits residents to six beers/ or a bottle of wine....THATS IT! (source news.com.au)
That is where I draw the line and time to fight those power hungry politicians. This is no longer about health ..it is about power and control!
I want my beer and alcohol and I want to sail my boat!!!!! Good news, residences in New South Wales can consult with a physician if they feel they need more alcohol then allowed.

Abe

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds

I could put up with Covid Vaccine killing 13,000 in the US, and about 15,000 in Europe according to VAERS and the equivalent reporting system in Europe. I could put up with the vaccine sending 40-60,000 people into the hospital for life threatening events....more than all other vaccines combined in the last thirty years! I can put up with the fact that the vaccine is so "effective" that vaccinated people need boosters every 4 months and that 60% of the people in the ICU in Israel are vaccinated....
BUT I will now DRAW THE LINE. When Australia is now confiscating alcohol, limits residents to six beers/ or a bottle of wine....THATS IT! (source news.com.au)
That is where I draw the line and time to fight those power hungry politicians. This is no longer about health ..it is about power and control!
I want my beer and alcohol and I want to sail my boat!!!!! Good news, residences in New South Wales can consult with a physician if they feel they need more alcohol then allowed.

Abe

Where in the name of the king of the sky fairies did you glean that info?

Dud link by the way - nothing to be found here https://www.news.com.au

'I want my beer and alcohol ' says rather a lot about american beer.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Where in the name of the king of the sky fairies did you glean that info?...

Glad it is evening here or I would have spit out my coffee on that one!



Gonna have to remember that line....

Later,
Dan

[sailingabe41ds]

Anyone wonders how India...a poor country with more than 1,4 billion people, poor health care, difficulty to test and vaccinate has one of the lowest death rate per capita?
Treat early...ivermenctin, hydroxychlorocline, doxycycline, zinc, d, c.....People in India are instructed to treat early if they have symptoms. African countries with poverty ...the same. They take hydroxychloroquine for malaria.
Ever wonder why there is so much resistance in the US, European countries for treatment? Every time they tell you, you need a booster jab its another billion or two for pharma who control the show and donate to those politicians.
Think outside the box.... a vaccine created with limited research (btw the mrna vaccine was abandoned years ago because it was hurting people in experimental hiv vaccine) with billions of dollar to be made and the manufactures will not give it to any country unless they have complete immunity should make you think.
Finally, in the recent approval for the vaccine the FDA did not wait till study finished in 2023, nor go through the usual pier reviews, nor take into account at their own VAERS information of the death and morbidity caused by the vaccine. Did you know that the study considered the vaccine effective if it prevented a cough....not prevented death?
Not recommending to or not vaccinate, nor to or not to treat...only recommending that people need to wake up and not trust the media nor blindly follow your politicians as most people are doing these days.
Sweden has remained relatively open and their death rate is below the average locked up European country....same in the US with Red states vs Blue states...why do people not want to talk about any of that in the media?
Stop being a sheeple think for yourself.
Finally, throughout history with bacteria or viruses... the later mutated forms may be more infectious than the former but less deadly. Logic, a virus that kills the host dies with the host and has no time to replicate. The virus who keeps the host alive has the time to replicate and spread.
The successful flee is the flee that can jump higher and not kill the dog. ...if it can not jump to spread and it kills the dog, that is the end of the strain of flee.

Abe

[sailingabe41ds]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Where in the name of the king of the sky fairies did you glean that info?

Dud link by the way - nothing to be found here https://www.news.com.au

'I want my beer and alcohol ' says rather a lot about american beer.

Just google "australia alcohol beer lockdown" and you will find it.

Abe

[GILow]

Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds

Just google "australia alcohol beer lockdown" and you will find it.

Abe

You can Google anything, doesn’t make it true.

Rather than Google it, read the full story, understand all of the facts, don’t just read the headlines.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by GILow

You can Google anything, doesn’t make it true.

Rather than Google it, read the full story, understand all of the facts, don’t just read the headlines.

Exactly- at a quick reading of a variety of sources - starting with believe it or not 'Sky' - it involves a single homeless shelter in Sydney.

I think people who know anything about anything will understand what the problem is there.

But hey - never mind - some bloke in 'merica told me that no one in Australia could buy booze so it must be true.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds

Just google "australia alcohol beer lockdown" and you will find it.

Abe

Guess you didn't read the article. Here, let me help you out, a direct quote from it

A NSW Police spokeswoman said Police officers are not confiscating alcohol delivered to residential buildings, and do not have powers to do so

Also, AFAIK, no personal alcohol is allowed in health facilities anywhere.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

PS Dockhead, what do you consider is the “mission objective”?

Deciding on this is a critical step in planning action, is it not?

SWL

Absolutely! That is the key question actually!


To answer this you have to reach deep into philosophy. Are we John Mills utilitarians? Or what?



No easy answer, but probably most people would come out in favor of the least overall harm to society. If they knew the whole score. And for God's sake not throwing schoolchildren under the bus.


So stopping the pandemic, getting life to normal, saving as many lives as possible, but particularly -- life-years.


So you choose the right balance of risk based on the best information you have.

[Searles]

In reply to people unsure of the long term results of COVID 19 vacs ,just look back in recent history ,all vacs have some risks for some people.most vacswere rolled out with little understanding of possible long term results ,every thing has it risks ,even going sailing ,such is life .⛵️⚓️🧪

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Searles

In reply to people unsure of the long term results of COVID 19 vacs ,just look back in recent history ,all vacs have some risks for some people.most vacswere rolled out with little understanding of possible long term results ,every thing has it risks ,even going sailing ,such is life .⛵️⚓️🧪

And not even remotely as risky as sailing in the Gulf St V. [emoji16]

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Absolutely! That is the key question actually!

To answer this you have to reach deep into philosophy. Are we John Mills utilitarians? Or what?

No easy answer, but probably most people would come out in favor of the least overall harm to society. If they knew the whole score. And for God's sake not throwing schoolchildren under the bus.

So stopping the pandemic, getting life to normal, saving as many lives as possible, but particularly -- life-years.

So you choose the right balance of risk based on the best information you have.

These are big issues and I am grappling with them.

I am of the opinion that utilitarianism is a good place to start.

We have thrown not just children and young adults under the bus, but also the poorer segments of the population in most developed countries.

If saving life years (particularly quality life years) and maximising quality of life generally were primarily considerations and if we could decide on how to pinpoint quality of life, this pandemic would have been handled very differently. Also if the greatest good for the greatest number was considered.

The cost that a country is prepared to pay per life year must also be coldly determined. This is not infinite. Funds are certainly not lavished on extending every life possible in non pandemic times. I imagine saving of life years has been done at a massive cost per year during this pandemic. It would be an interesting exercise to quantify this.

In an attempt to minimise COVID-19 deaths in the elderly, we have undoubtedly caused illness and death from other causes, induced phycological problems, reduced education (some of which will never be caught up), slowed research, damaged the arts, affected the economy, not just short term, but possibly for years or decades to come.

However, I think if you proposed a strategy of pandemic management based on the consideration of life years lost and utilitarianism, most CF members would want to lynch you given the demographics of this group. It would also in some ways be at odds with civil rights, although much of the handling of this pandemic has been at odds with aspects of that anyway.

SWL

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

These are big issues and I am grappling with them.

I am of the opinion that utilitarianism is a good place to start.

We have thrown not just children and young adults under the bus, but also the poorer segments of the population in most developed countries.

If saving life years (particularly quality life years) and maximising quality of life generally were primarily considerations and if we could decide on how to pinpoint quality of life, this pandemic would have been handled very differently. Also if the greatest good for the greatest number was considered.

The cost that a country is prepared to pay per life year must also be coldly determined. This is not infinite. Funds are certainly not lavished on extending every life possible in non pandemic times. I imagine saving of life years has been done at a massive cost per year during this pandemic. It would be an interesting exercise to quantify this.

In an attempt to minimise COVID-19 deaths in the elderly, we have undoubtedly caused illness and death from other causes, induced phycological problems, reduced education (some of which will never be caught up), slowed research, damaged the arts, affected the economy, not just short term, but possibly for years or decades to come.

However, I think if you proposed a strategy of pandemic management based on the consideration of life years lost and utilitarianism, most CF members would want to lynch you given the demographics of this group. It would also in some ways be at odds with civil rights, although much of the handling of this pandemic has been at odds with aspects of that anyway.

SWL

Totally agree with this, as I guess you know, and I submit that it's the only rational approach to formulating policy on the question.


And yes, there were those who wanted to lynch me for such opinions, in some of our discussions last year.


My prediction is that public policy made around this pandemic will be studied for decades to come as an example of how irrational fear and the narrow interests of one narrow group was used to sacrifice huge voiceless sectors of society.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by dannc

Based on what I read in EU news sites, the EU seems to have a real fear of English sausages sneaking across the Irish border, and somehow, destroying the German frankfurter market.

That's only brexiteers that are suprised they are treated the same as all other non EU countries. It could have been avoided by UK doing what Switzerland does. Switzerland has never been an EU country but mirrors all EU food standards and can there for trade freely with the EU for all food products while food producers in the UK has big problems.

Originally Posted by dannc

Per the "settlement" with AZ, the EU wants 210 million jabs by the end of 1Q2022.

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2...e-out-of-court

If the EU will not use these hundreds of millions of vaccines, hopefully they will give them to Australia, New Zealand or some of the many other countries that have a serious need for them.

Later,
Dan

They want AZ to fufill the current contract but are not signing any more contracts.They have to find someone that wants it. From this thread it sounds like Australians don't want AZ either.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Guess you didn't read the article. Here, let me help you out, a direct quote from it



Also, AFAIK, no personal alcohol is allowed in health facilities anywhere.

AFAIUT the building concerned is essentially privately owned accomodation for the homeless although how you remain homeless when you have a home is something of a mystery.

The owners can make whatever rules they like - don't like it then go sleep on the street.

Its a bit like not being allowed to take women into licenced seamen's boarding houses.

I see that in the last week 25% of the remaining unvaccinated 75/79 year olds have had their first AZ shot - only 7% to go to have 100% done so should be knocked over by the end of September. Not much hesitancy there. I guess the war babies and original baby boomers are a bit tougher than most.

Meanwhile Chile is using AZ for booster shots... they reckon its better suited for the job than Phizer.