The Reality of Living in Australia and Covid

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by tanngrisnir

Nowhere are 12 y.o. being prioritized, they are now eligible for the appropriate vaccine for their age group as recommended by ATAGI. They can make a booking like anyone else and their ability to get Pfizer is very dependent on supply.

Everyone in Australia is being prioritised over the 60+ year olds for receiving Pfizer, 12 year olds included when they can start receiving jabs on the 13th September. Pfizer is simply not an option for the over 60’s currently unless they have a good medical reason not to be able to use AZ.

The over 60’s have been specifically warned that even when there are sufficient Pfizer doses to include them, they will at the “back of the queue behind 12 year olds”.

Originally Posted by tanngrisnir

Also some of the quack remedies like ivemectin are being widely discussed and the fact checking being pushed as some odd politicians spam text the country with misinformation.

I am reserving judgement regarding ivermectin except to say it looks promising.
There have simply not been any results of good human trials published for COVID-19 treatment (well designed, large groups, double blind with a placebo group, peer reviewed and accepted by a reputable journal). This is the gold standard. Some really poorly designed and executed studies are conducted in general and not a lot of weight can be put on these.

Research such as this is expensive and very heavily funded by the pharmaceutical industry, but there is no money in the use of old cheap drugs. Hence no decent studies.

The media have been skewing perceptions with images of horses and headlines about it being a horse drug implying it is just for veterinary use. Ivermectin has been used extensively worldwide as a human anti-parasitic for 30 years now with minimal side effects. It is on the WHO’s list of essential medicines.

Secondly, the Australian government and the media seem focussed on pushing vaccination, not informing the public regarding available treatments. Monoclonal antibody treatment is extremely effective if given shortly after infection (in the first week or so). There are pop up clinics in the US now providing this. I haven’t heard much fanfare regarding this in Australia except a short announcement that sotrovimab was approved by the TGA in August for 12+ year olds and that 7700 doses arrived last month. I did not see the media jumping on this:

https://www.globenewswire.com/en/new...Australia.html

SWL

[goboatingnow]

The AZ is a good vaccine and studies in the U.K. suggest it wanes less quickly then Pfizer

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Everyone in Australia is being prioritised over the 60+ year olds for receiving Pfizer, 12 year olds included when they can start receiving jabs on the 13th September. Pfizer is simply not an option for the over 60’s currently unless they have a good medical reason not to be able to use AZ.

The over 60’s have been specifically warned that even when there are sufficient Pfizer doses to include them, they will at the “back of the queue behind 12 year olds”.
........
SWL

Is there a problem with this approach?

It seems all the 60+ have access to a suitable vaccine; what am I missing?

Except that the feds are trying (unsuccessfully) to keep their incompetence of sourcing Pfizer off the news cycle.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-...ster/100443360

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The AZ is a good vaccine and studies in the U.K. suggest it wanes less quickly then Pfizer

I am not disputing this at all. Supplies are also exceeding demand in Australia so it is certainly readily available.

AZ hesitancy is, however, occurring in Australia and 18% of the 60-69 age group is still unvaccinated. Blame can probably be put on several sources. All the initial fuss in the EU regarding the rare blood clots (and withdrawal of use in some EU countries), ATAGI not recommending AZ for the under 60’s, Aussie media focussing on the clots, even the Queensland health advisor several months ago saying something along the lines of not wanting to be responsible for deaths from AZ.

This hesitancy is occurring in a vulnerable group. Why not stop additional deaths by offering this group Pfizer rather than literally pushing Pfizer vaccination on healthy school kids who have next to no risk of severe illness (as far as I can gather all the youngsters in intensive care have had other health issues reported) while withholding it from the 60+ year olds?

SWL

PS Wottie, the above also answers what I think is wrong with withholding Pfizer from the oldies.

[El Pinguino]

Over 60 and want Phizer?
I suggest a strongly worded letter to -
Scott Morrison,
PM,
The Lodge,
Canberra.

Just hope he responds before we prioritise Phizer for the over 6's.

'Chilean health authorities have approved the emergency use of the Sinovac Biotech (CoronaVac) coronavirus vaccine on children aged six years or older, it was announced Monday.

Five experts from the national Institute of Public Health of Chile favored the use of the drug on patients, as the country's vaccination plan becomes one of the most sucessful worldwide. A study published in The Lancet in June said that Sinovac's drug was safe and effective in children over three years of age.'

https://en.mercopress.com/2021/09/07...-six-and-older

And Argentina has introduced a Vax Pasaporte

https://en.mercopress.com/2021/09/07...ion-credential

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

... I am reserving judgement regarding ivermectin except to say it looks promising.
There have simply not been any results of good human trials published for COVID-19 treatment (well designed, large groups, double blind with a placebo group, peer reviewed and accepted by a reputable journal). This is the gold standard. Some really poorly designed and executed studies are conducted in general and not a lot of weight can be put on these...

What makes you think ivermectin “looks premising”, when there have simply not been any results of good human trials published?
Simply, that it's not likely to kill you?

[GILow]

Originally Posted by GordMay

What makes you think ivermectin “looks premising”, when there have simply not been any results of good human trials published?
Simply, that it's not likely to kill you?

I was wondering the same thing. What did I miss?

[El Pinguino]

Ivermectin has been shown to kill the virus in a petri dish when administered at 8 times the recommended dose - for a Clydesdale.

Gotta be true - I saw it on Sky - and elsewhere

https://thespinoff.co.nz/science/06-...-and-covid-19/

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Ivermectin has been shown to kill the virus in a petri dish when administered at 8 times the recommended dose - for a Clydesdale.

Gotta be true - I saw it on Sky - and elsewhere

https://thespinoff.co.nz/science/06-...-and-covid-19/

Ping, I am sure you could do better than that .

My reading has just been general and I have not kept track of links indicating ivermectin may be useful. Gord, this is your specialty. What can you find?

As I said, I am reserving judgement, but I think we should all keep open minds. Referring to a drug used widely on humans for 3 decades as “horse medicine”, as is being done, is misleading.

SWL

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by GordMay

What makes you think ivermectin “looks premising”, when there have simply not been any results of good human trials published?
Simply, that it's not likely to kill you?

Originally Posted by GILow

I was wondering the same thing. What did I miss?

Well to start with, Oxford University seems to think it is promising.
This is from their website:

“For COVID-19, ivermectin has shown promising results as a potential treatment in small studies in humans.”

They have started trialling ivermectin:
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-06-23...rinciple-trial

SWL

[Simi 60]

It only works if you shine a torch up your date at the same time so a "reputable" source told me.

[Group9]

I’ve never been to Australia. But, I am starting to realize that watching “Crocodile Dundee” gave me a completely erroneous view of what most Australians are really like.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Why not blend together all the data from Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland? Similar total population and apart from language, similar regional differences. If it seems OK to seperate say Finish and Danish numbers, then it seems OK to seperate say NSW and QLD numbers in order to get a better understanding of what is occurring - anywhere.

Yes, I've actually done that a few times -- that is, looked at the Nordics as if it were one country -- and it actually did occur to me that the Nordic region is similar in population to Oz. There is actually a fair amount of sense in combining the Nordics since all except Sweden are very small -- 5 or 6 million, and even Sweden is only 10 million.



Of course there's nothing unreasonable about your proposal, but it's also a somewhat endless task since there is no end of how you can divide up and separate different regions, cities, even neighborhoods.



By country is somewhat random -- as you correctly point out -- but not really any more random than any other way.

[Seaworthy Lass]

A brief search shows that the US is also investigating ivermectin.

Ivermectin is one of the COVID-19 therapeutics that has been prioritized by the US for testing in clinical trials.

It is included in the protocol that is “designed to test the effectiveness of three repurposed drugs (drugs that are FDA-approved for non-COVID-19 indications and have known safety profiles) in reducing the duration and severity of symptoms associated with mild-to-moderate COVID-19.”

https://www.nih.gov/research-trainin...-trials#activ6

As with the UK, I don’t think the US would be wasting time and money doing this if ivermectin did not look “promising”.

SWL

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Group9

I’ve never been to Australia. But, I am starting to realize that watching “Crocodile Dundee” gave me a completely erroneous view of what most Australians are really like.

Well, we bought Alan Lucas’ Cruising the Coral Coast to keep us entertained while in quarantine. Five full pages of dangers - we’re not worried at all about Covid anymore:
- spiders
- snakes (land and swimming too!)
- poisonous fish, including stonefish which you don’t even have to eat to get poisoned by
- box jellyfish
- Irukandji
- sharks
- crocodiles
- dingoes
- wild pigs
- sandflies