The Reality of Living in Australia and Covid

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Factor

I am so sick of Mary Louise McCaws. So sick, between her and that twat norman swan the abc have got more wrong than right. Also sick of the abject failure to understand the constitutional roles of various people and jurisdictions. Also sick of people who dont understand that governing is not about single issues its about balancing all positives and negatives and making a decision.

Last year 1094 people died on the roads in Australia, 909 died from Covid. I havent heard anyone suggest that we stop driving cars? We as a society dont like people dying on the road, but we accept that it will happen and balance that cost against the freedom convenience and economic benefit.

Hmm... leaving aside Mary and Norman except to say they have plenty of company in the international crowd of who got more wrong than right, it seems to me that all Aussie governments initially made decisions that focussed on maintaining public health (particularly 'life'). As time wore on this degenerated into party bickering and finally decisions became more ideologically defined. This degeneration into party politics sickens me (this could be considered a universal ongoing pandemic in it's own right). Of course decisions should and must change as events unfold. The decisions should be always be based on what is best overall for the community - sadly they aren't. IMO, the decisions become based on what leaders believe is best for their own interests.

Comparing road trauma to Covid19 is like comparing pineapples to hand grenades. One is essentially a personal decision with very little flow on effect yet costs the community quite a bit - the other is a contagious disease capable of spreading throughout a community with potentially disastrous effects to health and life.

Humanity has learnt to live with contagious pathogens in the past and the lessons learnt along the way need to be remembered this time around. Not all realise this and get their knickers in a knot when asked to do stuff that they don't personally don't like.

These comments aren't directed to any poster in particular, rather they are part of a general conversation about living with Covid.

FWIW, governments regularly make road rules to enhance road safety, some of these annoy me yet I do my best to abide by them.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Factor

snip..
Last year 1094 people died on the roads in Australia, 909 died from Covid. I havent heard anyone suggest that we stop driving cars? We as a society dont like people dying on the road, but we accept that it will happen and balance that cost against the freedom convenience and economic benefit.

Some seriously flawed logic there.

Currently we lose about 4.5 people per 100,000 to road accidents.
Probably before your time but 51 years ago - 1970 - we lost 3798 people from a far smaller population. That was 30.4 people per 100,000.

It was pretty much the norm in Victoria in the 60's for twenty people to die on the roads each and every weekend. It was also very newsworthy - people were calling for something to be done on a constant basis.

1970 was the year Victoria introduced seatbelts and since that time a constant stream of design improvements both in cars and roads, driver behaviour modification - ie DUI and speed limit enforcement - have seen a steady fall in deaths.

We do not accept road deaths - governments continue to work on driving the figures further down towards zero.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tralia_by_year

We will probably never get there, just as we will never totally eliminate deaths from common influenza or covid or a raft of other ailments.
Doesn't mean you just accept it.

[Cadence]

The decisions should be always be based on what is best overall for the community - sadly they aren't. IMO, the decisions become based on what leaders believe is best for their own interests.
A truer word never spoken. It maybe ego.

[ahun]

"One is essentially a personal decision"

Since when we call a traffic accident 'a personal decision?

[Alan Mighty]

Minor change in topic for those on the E Coast from about Mackay, QLD, to Coffs Harbour, NSW:

* BoM should give us the drum on Seth (apparently the third son Adam begot on Eve and, if you're a dinkum believer in wot is writ in the Old Testament, the male ancestor of all humans) by 1730 Eastern Standard Time/0730 UTC.

* the story so far today goes:

- at 1042 EST: Tropical Cyclone Information Bulletin 1 (QLD)

- at 1127 EST/0127 UTC: Tropical Cyclone Technical Bulletin 1 (QLD)

- at 1600 EST: http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDQ65002.shtml

- at 1640 EST: http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDQ21137.shtml

[Factor]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

We do not accept road deaths - governments continue to work on driving the figures further down towards zero..

Not so, the concept of acceptable loss is even in the legislation: See for example Section 4 of the Transport operations Road Use Management Act 1995.

4
Achieving an appropriate balance between safety and cost
(1)Although it may be possible to regulate to achieve the highest level of safety, doing so would ignore the impact of the regulation on the effectiveness and efficiency of road use.
(2)Therefore, this Act acknowledges the need to achieve an appropriate balance between safety, and the costs that regulation imposes on road users and the community.

The point is that government is always about competing priorities, its always all about choosing and balancing, its always about GOVERNING.

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by Factor

The point is that government is always about competing priorities, its always all about choosing and balancing, its always about GOVERNING.

Well said, Factor.

Geoff Kitney, as published by the Aus Financial Review

(for which see: https://www.afr.com/politics/federal...0211227-p59kaj)


wrote:

"The truth is, the Morrison government has become a government in name only, led by a leader who has little to offer as he seeks to take the Coalition to a fourth successive term in office. The Morrison government is occupying, not governing."

[UFO]

Originally Posted by GILow

(I’m a maths teacher, I guess it’s our equivalent of the Hippocratic oath.)

LOL - Perhaps you should remind most of the government statisticians of that... "Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics" Its easier to lie and mislead with numbers than anything else.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by UFO

LOL - Perhaps you should remind most of the government statisticians of that... "Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics" Its easier to lie and mislead with numbers than anything else.

Maybe, but I've seen way more wilful misinterpretation of the numbers from the anti-vax anti-lockdown mob than the government.

Either that or they are more stupid than they appear.

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by UFO

LOL - Perhaps you should remind most of the government statisticians of that... "Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics" Its easier to lie and mislead with numbers than anything else.

Could you be more explicit please UFO?

Who or what is telling lies and misleading:

* the prime minister (already covered by: https://www.crikey.com.au/dossier-of...nd-falsehoods/),
* the Aus Bureau of Statistics,
* the Reserve Bank of Aus,
* the Aus Prudential Regulation Authority,
* ASIC,
* ACCC,
* Aus Bureau of Meteorology,
* you,
* me,
* ?

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Factor

Not so, the concept of acceptable loss is even in the legislation: See for example Section 4 of the Transport operations Road Use Management Act 1995.



The point is that government is always about competing priorities, its always all about choosing and balancing, its always about GOVERNING.

You missed the word towards and omitted the important bit
'We do not accept road deaths - governments continue to work on driving the figures further down towards zero.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tralia_by_year

We will probably never get there, just as we will never totally eliminate deaths from common influenza or covid or a raft of other ailments.
Doesn't mean you just accept it.'

[El Pinguino]

Added bit
https://www.tac.vic.gov.au/road-safe...afety-strategy

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

Could you be more explicit please UFO?

Who or what is telling lies and misleading:

* the prime minister (already covered by: https://www.crikey.com.au/dossier-of...nd-falsehoods/),
* the Aus Bureau of Statistics,
* the Reserve Bank of Aus,
* the Aus Prudential Regulation Authority,
* ASIC,
* ACCC,
* Aus Bureau of Meteorology,
* you,
* me,
* ?

Well if you can not see what is happening with the change of regulations in regards to close contacts and casual contacts and PCR testing methodology and how this will effect the statistics then you should really read what the exact above changes are and what they mean.



Just out of interest am I thinking correctly that with these changes that logging in for contact tracing (still required) is really a moot point?

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by ahun

"One is essentially a personal decision"

Since when we call a traffic accident 'a personal decision?

When the driver is juiced to the gills and driving like a dick?

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by UFO

Well if you can not see what is happening with the change of regulations in regards to close contacts and casual contacts and PCR testing methodology and how this will effect the statistics then you should really read what the exact above changes are and what they mean.

Hmm ... I thought I had discussed exactly that up-thread at:

* https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3546380

and

* https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...54652-151.html

plus

* suggesting those changes went against opinion of independent experts given at: https://www.theguardian.com/australi...covid-response