The Reality of Living in Australia and Covid

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Paul L

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile..../idUSL1N2QQ24L

This kerfuffle with the Scottich covid deaths is the same basic error over and over again -- confusing total numbers with RATES.


Sure, there are more people in hospital who are vaccinated, than are not -- BECAUSE 90% OF ADULTS ARE VACCINATED


When you take that into account, you could be 10x less likely to be in hospital, because you're vaccinated, and there could still be a greater number of vaccinated people in hospital. People, this is really basic.


In fact, the SAME data show that unvaccinated are about twice as likely to be in hospital as vaccinated. How people call pull out of this, that unvaccinated are less affected -- beggars the imagination.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

This kerfuffle with the Scottich covid deaths is the same basic error over and over again -- confusing total numbers with RATES.


Sure, there are more people in hospital who are vaccinated, than are not -- BECAUSE 90% OF ADULTS ARE VACCINATED


When you take that into account, you could be 10x less likely to be in hospital, because you're vaccinated, and there could still be a greater number of vaccinated people in hospital. People, this is really basic.


In fact, the SAME data show that unvaccinated are about twice as likely to be in hospital as vaccinated. How people call pull out of this, that unvaccinated are less affected -- beggars the imagination.

True enough... you'd have thought people would realise that considering the flu shots been going for decades and those that have taken it can still be hospitalised or die.
Same course, different horse..

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by UFO

Fear Knows no Bounds.. Apparently



Its people like you that are being the selfish ones, pushing discrimination and segregation as well as an unproven and for some dangerous to deadly medical procedure.


Wanting mandates that discriminate against people to create a two tier system and are basically forcing those such as HEALTHY children, young adults & younger generations who are at no risk from covid to take a vaccine that can have life changing consequences or death for them if they have a bad reaction - That sounds pretty selfish to me.


You should look at the figures for covid and the young and healthy as well as figures for vaccine (serious) reactions - Here is a local Aussie article to get you started.


https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...15-p598yy.html


Anyway enjoy your jab every 6 months, as that is what you will be doing to just keep your vaccine passport up to date and not fall foul of all these draconian mandates and laws - People are already having theirs rescinded around the world if they don't keep updated - Its 2 jabs a year for life - LOL.



Oh and if you the think the vaccine really works, why are parts of Europe now having RECORD daily infections even though they have 60% to 80% vaccine rates - That's Bigger Daily infection rates than a year ago or its last peak before anyone was vaccinated - Explain that one, as you can't simply blame the unvaccinated unless you are a brain dead moron.

Yeah, well, I'm 'quaking in my Clark's'...

That you don't appear to realize that not everyone is 'statistically challenged' doesn't allow you, or anyone else, to inflict the consequences of such a shortcoming on anyone, or everyone, else.

In a 'free' society, one accepts responsibility for one's beliefs by understanding that actions have consequences. Don't want the 'jab'? Fine, but don't expect the same freedoms that those who take responsibility for understanding the basic concepts behind participating in society, like, for instance, the difference in risk (0.21 per cent of the 37.8 million doses administered to 18.4 million people), versus benefit, and not understanding the concept, and worse, trying to pass such ignorance off as some kind of a claim of 'moral superiority'.

And by the way, I've been 'enjoying' my (self-administered), genetically-engineered jabs two, and sometimes three, times a day for going on 49 years now.

Again, because you don't now understand the concept of vaccination, doesn't mean that no one else does, or that even you can't, even if you were "a brain dead moron".

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

The 450,000 in Melbourne is a non sense...

....He claimed the crowd at the park had reached 450,000 despite a much smaller number of people attending.'

Jus' givin' the loonies the benefit of the doubt....

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by Group9

Ripping through schools? Is it doing that where you live? Not here in the US. Although, our news media makes a big deal of every child who dies of Covid, without mentioning that about four times that number dies every year here from swimming pool drownings, and being in a car wreck without any form of seatbelt or restraint.



Same thing with opioid overdose deaths. We've had more people die from that in the country I live in, in the last two years, than from Covid, according to our country records as of yesterday. But, those deaths seem to be looked at as Act of God or something. Of course with Opioid deaths, big pharma might be considered to be the bad guy, and they pretty much seem to have the news media in their pocket these days.

Opioid problems have been in the news I’ve been reading

[El Pinguino]

They need some of our Aussie pollies like Tasmanian senator Jacqui Lambie in the Northern hemisphere... she'd sort em all out
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/f...22-p59b0p.html

If you are up for it full speech here -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSldjsHs1WY

I'll let you do your own research on One Nation and the proposed bill which was against vaccine employment mandates .

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

They need some of our Aussie pollies like Tasmanian senator Jacqui Lambie in the Northern hemisphere... she'd sort em all out
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/f...22-p59b0p.html

If you are up for it full speech here -

I'll let you do your own research on One Nation and the proposed bill which was against vaccine employment mandates .

And if you aren't up for the full speech, the take away piece is at 8.55...

“Being held accountable for your own actions isn’t called discrimination, it’s called being, you wouldn’t believe it, a goddamn bloody adult,” Senator Lambie said. “That’s right, being an adult. It’s putting others before yourself. And that’s what this country is supposed to be about."

[Wotname]

UFO, you forgot to include the bit about your responsibilities while you were spruiking about your freedoms.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by UFO

. . Well I hope you are willing to get jabbed every 6 months and do the right thing, else as shown in parts of Europe already if you don't you can kiss those freedoms goodbye.. . .

I am more than willing to be jabbed every 6 months. I'm going in for my third one this week, if the Finns will give it to me.

I am NOT willing to be locked down on and off for years, because some other people are unwilling to do so because of some irrational fears or social media misinformation, and therefore hang on as vectors of transmission and repositories of the virus for further mutation, prolonging this ghastly pandemic into eternity for the rest of us.

If you're afraid of the mRNA vaccines, just take one of the conventional vaccines like AZ. But do the right thing. Don't do it as a sacrifice for other people, do it for yourself first of all. The risks connected with the vaccines are many orders of magnitude less than the risks from having COVID, which is a nasty disease (I'm hear to tell you as I was sick with it). And you will be happier, like all the rest of us, to live in a society where the virus doesn't circulate much anymore because everyone is vaccinated.

I care a lot about individual rights and I think everyone has a right to his own opinion. I'm a lawyer and civil libertarian, for God's sake. But there are limits to them. In the U.S., the states have the explicit right, under a well established Supreme Court precedent, to even require people to get vaccinated, when it is necessary for public health. The reasoning of the case is a good lesson in balancing individual rights against common interests:https://tile.loc.gov/storage-service...srep197011.pdf

So the tendency in Europe, to require vaccination only as a condition to public-facing employment or to attending public gatherings, is extremely mild. Some countries under their consititions could go much further than this; I believe Austria is actually going to require vaccination full stop, starting next spring.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by UFO

Putting others before yourself - Don't make me laugh - You seriously don't believe that the societal masses are so altruistic that they do that for people they do not know? Even all of you on here spouting the "I'm doing it for society BS" LOL. . .

Here I agree with you.

Some weird things have been posted on here. The principle that only societal good is worth anything, and that there is no such thing as individual rights, comes straight from a system which is I hope alien to all of us -- fascism. The symbol of fascism, the fasces, is a bundle of sticks bound tightly around a halberd. That symbolizes society made up out of a bunch of sticks who are strong only when tied together as a collective. Fascism does not know individual rights -- everyone is supposed to sacrifice whatever for the common good, and also accept being dictated to about that.

That is not who we are, I hope. We live in liberal democracies where we balance individual rights against individual responsibilties, against the common good. This makes policymaking a lot more complicated, requiring balancing and compromise, but the result is a much better society than what you get out of fascism.

Unfortunately some people, even some leading politicians, don't seem to understand what liberal democracy is, and are perfectly willing to throw it out the window for the sake of simple answers to complicated problems.

When you have politicians saying stuff like -- "we're talking about human lives, therefore we don't care about human rights" -- you will get a backlash from people with a great deal of justice fighting for those rights which are being thrown out the window. This is not the way to do it. Rights and responsibilities go hand in hand. Imposing responsibilities, you also have to respect rights, or the whole thing goes off the rails. The best societies can afford broad individual rights, because the population is acutely conscious of its responsibilities. That's social trust. In the Nordic countries, individual rights are so broad that it's not constitutionally possible to impose travel restrictions or lockdowns. But then people are so responsible that they will follow recommendations and achieve social distancing without harsh mandatory restrictions, so you don't need to force people anyway. This is a virtuous circle -- respect and trust engender responsibility. So you simply don't need to kill liberal democracy, to deal with a crisis, on the contrary, really liberal societies turn out to be strongest of all, in the face of a crisis.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Wotname

UFO, you forgot to include the bit about your responsibilities while you were spruiking about your freedoms.

Exactly.



But he is right to talk about freedoms and we must not forget the crucial importance of individual freedoms in liberal democracies.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by UFO

Putting others before yourself - Don't make me laugh - You seriously don't believe that the societal masses are so altruistic that they do that for people they do not know? Even all of you on here spouting the "I'm doing it for society BS" LOL

There has been a FEAR Media Propaganda and brainwashing campaign since this whole thing started and MOST people are getting jabbed for one of 2 simple reasons - They are fearful of Covid for themselves and their family or they just want to get some of their freedoms back...

Seems, to me, to be a reasonable response to a known danger.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I am more than willing to be jabbed every 6 months. I'm going in for my third one this week, if the Finns will give it to me.

I am NOT willing to be locked down on and off for years, because some other people are unwilling to do so because of some irrational fears or social media misinformation, and therefore hang on as vectors of transmission and repositories of the virus for further mutation, prolonging this ghastly pandemic into eternity for the rest of us...

Originally Posted by Dockhead

... That is not who we are, I hope. We live in liberal democracies where we balance individual rights against individual responsibilties, against the common good. This makes policymaking a lot more complicated, requiring balancing and compromise, but the result is a much better society than what you get out of fascism.

Unfortunately some people, even some leading politicians, don't seem to understand what liberal democracy is, and are perfectly willing to throw it out the window for the sake of simple answers to complicated problems.

INDEED!

[ozsailer]

Originally Posted by captmikem

Thousands of Australians with unpaid fines for breaking Covid rules have their homes seized, bank accounts raided and licences cancelled as government chases $5.2million

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ueensland.html

FFS!!!!! This is just so rediculous I was not even going to waste my breath with a response but then I realised there are people on this site who will believe this. Its just no FFN true. So much fake news out there. PS I live in Oz and this is not even close.


Oz

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ozsailer

FFS!!!!! This is just so rediculous I was not even going to waste my breath with a response but then I realised there are people on this site who will believe this. Its just no FFN true. So much fake news out there. PS I live in Oz and this is not even close.

Fake news? The same thing is reported in some Ozzian news outlets:

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nat...27-p593kz.html

https://www.news.com.au/finance/quee...43d40b1c9b20d6

"According to a spokesman at SPER, the methods of enforcement “may include garnishing bank accounts or wages, registering charges over property, or suspending driver’s licences”.

Doesn't sound like fake news to me.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Exactly.



But he is right to talk about freedoms and we must not forget the crucial importance of individual freedoms in liberal democracies.

Yep, I exercise my freedom to show that I give a sh-t about the elderly and vulnerable in my society by getting vaccinated. Statistically, I’m not at particularly high risk, but many that I care about or for are.