The Reality of Living in Australia and Covid

[UFO]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

So what have I said that you find so offensive?

I see Craig Kelly addressed the mob in Melbourne today. Any idea what his agenda is? Seems most of the people at that rally were protesting Dan's proposed new legislation but it was hijacked by Kelly and his ilk.

Meanwhile back in 'lockdown' free Melbourne and indeed Victoria... Delta doesn't seem to be 'spreading like wildfire'

Well Ratbags and Flogging (previous posts, not sure who said that one) and other such things are yes quite offensive.


Never even heard of Craig Kelly, so can't answer that one.


What you should be worried about as much as those who do not want the Vax, is the massive power grab going on and the removal of Freedoms - If you don't think that one day that will come knocking on your door or your children's door then you are all being very short sighted.


If the general populace don't understand that the new digital ID they are creating will not slowly progress towards what China has had implemented for a long time, then you are all screwed - Me I am out of this sad excuse for a Democratic country, which is now more of a police state than ever.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by UFO

Well Ratbags and Flogging (previous posts, not sure who said that one) and other such things are yes quite offensive.


Never even heard of Craig Kelly, so can't answer that one.


What you should be worried about as much as those who do not want the Vax, is the massive power grab going on and the removal of Freedoms - If you don't think that one day that will come knocking on your door or your children's door then you are all being very short sighted.


If the general populace don't understand that the new digital ID they are creating will not slowly progress towards what China has had implemented for a long time, then you are all screwed - Me I am out of this sad excuse for a Democratic country, which is now more of a police state than ever.

You missed the 'Damned good thrashing' bit and -in some quarters- 'ratbag ' is a term of endearment.

You aren't really Australian are you? But then who is these days - sigh.

You don't know who Craig Kelly is? Clive Palmer? Golly.

For them who who aren't sure what the proposed legislation in Vic is all about this may help
https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...03-p595iv.html

Good luck finding somewhere better than Oz. Your plans?

[RaymondR]

Eventually it all comes down to gratification.

Fundamental to democracy is the principal that each person be able to pursue those things which provide personnel gratification provided that this is not detrimental to others or the society at large. Folks like Dangerous Dan are gratified by having power over the choices of others, he wants to achieve personnel gratification by exercising a power to limit your power to do so. Selfish and self centred little mongrels.

[tp12]

I wonder at the psychology behind the belief that public health orders are about exercising power for self gratification. There’s something interesting going on there

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Fundamental to democracy is the principal that each person be able to pursue those things which provide personnel gratification provided that this is not detrimental to others or the society at large.

Really?

The reality of living in Australia includes:

[1] Australia has no Bill of Rights preventing the federal parliament from restricting basic human rights. In terms of guaranteeing rights, the Australian constitution has three pieces of handwaving about:

(a) property rights, see Section 51 (xxxi) suggesting that the commonwealth govt has to give you 'just terms' if it takes your property;

(b) judicial trial, see Section 80 suggesting that trial by jury is required for some criminal offences; and

(c) religion, see section 116 suggesting that you might have a right to exercise choice in religion.

Since the adoption of the Australian Constitution, the High Court decided that you have an implied right to communication on political matters (but not other subjects) because of the explicit embrace of representative government.

[2] the words 'freedom' and 'democracy' were not included or defined in the Aus Constitution. Same for 'gratification', whether for persons or personnel. I strongly suspect the neither 'principle' nor 'principal' is mentioned in the Aus Constitution. The best you have is the notion (you could call it a 'principle' but it's definitely not a 'principal') of 'representative government' produced by regular elections involving votes by people directly to choose 'representatives' (see Sections 7, 24, and 28).

[3] The Aus constitution only stops a state government from discriminating against the residents of other states. States of the federation are their own sovereign states and so a state can do what it likes with respect to limiting freedoms or granting rights to its residents (as long as the rule of no discrimination against non-residents is followed). Territories have limited self-government (i.e. the commonwealth parliament can and has limited a territory from granting rights and freedoms).

Given that altering the Aus constitution is jolly difficult, I suggest you consider joining UFO and follow his declared intention: "I am out of this sad excuse for a Democratic country, which is now more of a police state than ever."

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

Really?

The reality of living in Australia includes:

[1] Australia has no Bill of Rights preventing the federal parliament from restricting basic human rights. In terms of guaranteeing rights, the Australian constitution has three pieces of handwaving about:

(a) property rights, see Section 51 (xxxi) suggesting that the commonwealth govt has to give you 'just terms' if it takes your property;

Ah - 'just terms'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp6f...l9sc1A&index=1

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Ah - 'just terms'

Yair.

Best if you have mates in the right place.

For the famous/infamous Leppington Triangle, see the Aus National Audit Office's view: https://www.anao.gov.au/work/perform...sydney-airport

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

...............
Given that altering the Aus constitution is jolly difficult, I suggest you consider joining UFO and follow his declared intention: "I am out of this sad excuse for a Democratic country, which is now more of a police state than ever."

I was going to suggest they might find a more convivial digs at Principality of Hutt River but not only is it landlocked, it was dissolved 3 August 2020 - much to my surprise!

Another victim of Covid - perhaps? Of course the everlasting dispute with the neighbouring nation's evil tax collectors didn't help!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princi..._of_Hutt_River

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Wotname

I was going to suggest they might find a more convivial digs at Principality of Hutt River but not only is it landlocked, it was dissolved 3 August 2020 - much to my surprise!

Another victim of Covid - perhaps? Of course the everlasting dispute with the neighbouring nation's evil tax collectors didn't help!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princi..._of_Hutt_River

Seems Prince Graeme had to sell up to pay dad's debts.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

You missed the 'Damned good thrashing' bit and -in some quarters- 'ratbag ' is a term of endearment.

You aren't really Australian are you? But then who is these days - sigh.

You don't know who Craig Kelly is? Clive Palmer? Golly.

For them who who aren't sure what the proposed legislation in Vic is all about this may help
https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...03-p595iv.html

Good luck finding somewhere better than Oz. Your plans?

I do know of Clive Palmer - He tried to take on the Fuhrer in WA and lost in regards to border closures.


Better than OZ - Its all in the eye of the beholder. Not sure yet though, I will go where the wind blows me Always been happy in developing nations as well as the West, so the world is my oyster as they say.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by UFO

I do know of Clive Palmer - He tried to take on the Fuhrer in WA and lost in regards to border closures.


Better than OZ - Its all in the eye of the beholder. Not sure yet though, I will go where the wind blows me Always been happy in developing nations as well as the West, so the world is my oyster as they say.

Don't blame you getting out of WA.
I've always associated Perth with whinging poms.

[Alan Mighty]

From https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nat...15-p59916.html

Almost 100 Queensland police officers have been stood down for refusing to be vaccinated against COVID-19.

Queensland Police Commissioner Katarina Carroll announced in September that all police officers and staff were required to have their first dose of a COVID-19 vaccine by October 4 and their second dose by January 23 next year.

Answering a question on notice tabled in Parliament, Police Minister Mark Ryan said “almost all” the state’s police officers had received their first dose or had an approved exception by November 11, with most already having received their second vaccination.

“I am informed by the Queensland Police Service that as at 4pm on November 11, 2021, 92 police officers out of a workforce of more than 12,000 have been suspended on vaccine-related matters,” he said.

“I am further advised that, due to privacy provisions, any officers who resign from the QPS are not required to provide reasons for doing so.

“I have been assured by the Police Commissioner that the QPS has sufficient police resources to maintain community safety across Queensland.”

The figure had risen from October, when 82 police officers and 54 staff members were reported as suspended for not being vaccinated or providing an exemption.

QPS had granted 197 exemptions on either medical, religious or other grounds.

Two groups of police officers and staff are running separate legal challenges to the vaccine mandate in the Supreme Court, with one case involving 24 police employees and the other involving seven.

There had also been a third legal challenge by police officers and staff before the Queensland Industrial Relations Commission, but that case was dismissed last week.

The newest case will return to the Supreme Court on December 10 for a review, while the longer-running case has been set down for a three-day hearing on December 20-22.

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

QPS had granted 197 exemptions on either medical, religious or other grounds.

I'm puzzled by the suggestion of religious grounds (along with medical or other grounds) for an exemption from immunisation.

I noted with interest (and a touch of amusement) yesterday the tortured reasoning of authorities in Brunei. You'll recall that the mufti of Brunei declared the anti-Covid vaccines to be harus, or necessary to take.

That came after the mufti and Brunei scientists considered the religious food laws, the manufacturing process of the vaccines, and then went through what I regarded as tortured reasoning:

* Brunei tested all the vaccines used in their jurisdiction (including AstraZeneca, BioNTech/Pfizer, and Moderna) for DNA associated with the dreaded pig. They found none.

* But two non-halal and non-DNA problems arose:

- manufacture of mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) involved the use of heparin, the mucopolysaccharide that acts as an anticoagulant. Brunei authorities identified the heparin as being non-halal in origin.

- manufacture of AstraZeneca vaccine involved culturing chimpanzee adenovirus in a medium that included trypsin, a protease. Brunei authorities identified the trypsin as being non-halal in origin, suggesting to my limited knowledge that the trypsin in question is prolyl oligopeptidase made from pigs (but I'm sure that's not the only trypsin made from pig muscle meat).

- to handle those two problems, Brunei authorities decided that the non-halal problems could be overcome by regarding the biochemicals that originated outside the religious food laws in the same way as the nutrients found in manure of animal origin: since fruit from plants fertilised with animal manure can be regarded as halal, then so also a vaccine that is produced with the use of non-halal components but which does not contain pig DNA, is halal.

Means, I am pleased to introduce to you my acquaintance Ends. Ends, my valued acquaintance Means. This is a public health emergency, so I'll ignore my friends, the Principles, if you don't mind.

See:
https://www.thestar.com.my/aseanplus...ealth-minister
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6152658/
https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/102/10/3599.full.pdf

[tp12]

Interesting article from a lawyer and human rights advocate in Australia re: anti-vaxxers

https://www.smh.com.au/national/anti...13-p58zix.html

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by tp12

Interesting article from a lawyer and human rights advocate in Australia re: anti-vaxxers

https://www.smh.com.au/national/anti...13-p58zix.html

Whilst reading the article,


"But there is also the risk that sometimes, in the attempt to find balance, we elevate nonsense to an equal footing with science, or basic reasoning."


and thinking "how apropros to other aspects of 'modern' life, like climate change", the next sentence reared it's logical head


"The climate change debate is a sad example of the consequence of the artificial invention of balance, which is a debating approach or process that treats ideas or information as equal even when tangibly the information should not be treated as such."


The effects of such foolish ignorance are ubiquitous in the 'advanced' world, are a product of a useless, myopic affluence, and allowing those that propogate it to continue to do so is an expensive indulgence that should not be tolerated.