The Reality of Living in Australia and Covid

[NevilleCat]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Australia and particularly NZ have followed a disastrous “ fortress “ concept without speedily implementing a vaccine program and are now going to pay a terrible price because delta cannot , cannot , be contained by barrier based approaches.

Bear in mind the so called "fortress" approach may only end up being disastrous in some way due to other nations neglecting their social responsibility in their inability, or worse, their sheer unwillingness to attempt a serious repression of the virus in the first place.
This has led to the virus being rampant internationally and directly responsible for the mutations we are now having to grapple with. Some of which may turn out to be quite resistant to the current vaccines.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It's pointless to argue about it. No one really knows yet what the best approach was, and furthermore different countries and situations might very well demand different approaches, so there might not even be one right answer. I think we'll understand this a little better later.


I think what concerns Australia, the interesting bit is now ahead. IF the Delta variant ends up ripping through society despite all the earlier measures, then that's one thing. If however at the end of the pandemic the amount of lockdown employed ends up being much less than other countries, because the measures were successful enough in the first place, that lockdown was not then needed except on rare occasions, then I think that looks pretty good. We shall see.


I think we DO know already that the way we did it in the U.S. was pretty awful. All these endless cycles of lockdown, opening, lockdown, opening, going on and on, and despite that very high rates of infection and death -- worst of both worlds, innit?

It won't rip through Australia. NSW maybe. Which is why they have closed state borders. Be aware our state borders aren't like European borders - I was in a queue of about three yesterday coming home on the Hume from NSW.
And we do not have high rates of infection and death.
We do not have this vax/anti vax or mask/ no mask business based on politics.
When we had very little covid and very little vaccine we had vaccine hesitancy - but not rabid anti vaxxers.
Since delta arrived in Vic and NSW people have been queued up down the street and around the corner to get vaxxed.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

It won't rip through Australia. NSW maybe. Which is why they have closed state borders. Be aware our state borders aren't like European borders - I was in a queue of about three yesterday coming home on the Hume from NSW.
And we do not have high rates of infection and death.
We do not have this vax/anti vax or mask/ no mask business based on politics.
When we had very little covid and very little vaccine we had vaccine hesitancy - but not rabid anti vaxxers.
Since delta arrived in Vic and NSW people have been queued up down the street and around the corner to get vaxxed.

It would be great if you guys would spped up your vaccination program. It can certainly be done -- look at Europe which was so far behind the UK and US a few months ago and has now caught up or passed.


But will Delta rip? It certainly could; it has a big window of opportunity with the low level of immunity you have in the population at this stage. Lockdowns and whatever measures didn't stop the virus from circulating in other places; what makes you sure that they can in Oz? Maybe you have few enough infections that you can, but maybe not. The damned Delta variant is as contagious as chicken pox; my guess would be that it can't be contained.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It would be great if you guys would spped up your vaccination program. It can certainly be done -- look at Europe which was so far behind the UK and US a few months ago and has now caught up or passed.


But will Delta rip? It certainly could; it has a big window of opportunity with the low level of immunity you have in the population at this stage. Lockdowns and whatever measures didn't stop the virus from circulating in other places; what makes you sure that they can in Oz? Maybe you have few enough infections that you can, but maybe not. The damned Delta variant is as contagious as chicken pox; my guess would be that it can't be contained.

Our success in suppressing the virus in Australia, combined with the rare blood clotting cases from the AZ vaccine has been our downfall in a perverse way.

Without the virus running rampant the perception of risk from the virus was lower than the perception of risk from the vaccine. (I say perception because humans are, frankly, hopeless at estimating risk.)

Now that the virus is at large in the state of NSW and, to a lesser degree, Victoria, people are flocking to get vaccinated. But with, I think, a 12 week delay between first and second doses of AZ, and a shortage of the much faster Pfizer offering, Australia is a long way from reaching the currently desired level of 80% vaccination, despite the suddenly very rapid uptake.

Meanwhile I am sailing a race against time, trying to get back to South Australia for professional reasons before what I believe will be the inevitable outbreak of Covid 19 in Tasmania. I know that if that happens then my only chance of being let back into South Australia will be with the implementation of some kind of vaccine passport, unlikely to happen until at least late October.

At least I am fully vaccinated and have been for some time, so I should be eligible for any relaxing of restrictions when they arrive.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by GILow

Our success in suppressing the virus in Australia, combined with the rare blood clotting cases from the AZ vaccine has been our downfall in a perverse way.

Without the virus running rampant the perception of risk from the virus was lower than the perception of risk from the vaccine. (I say perception because humans are, frankly, hopeless at estimating risk.)

Now that the virus is at large in the state of NSW and, to a lesser degree, Victoria, people are flocking to get vaccinated. But with, I think, a 12 week delay between first and second doses of AZ, and a shortage of the much faster Pfizer offering, Australia is a long way from reaching the currently desired level of 80% vaccination, despite the suddenly very rapid uptake.

Meanwhile I am sailing a race against time, trying to get back to South Australia for professional reasons before what I believe will be the inevitable outbreak of Covid 19 in Tasmania. I know that if that happens then my only chance of being let back into South Australia will be with the implementation of some kind of vaccine passport, unlikely to happen until at least late October.

At least I am fully vaccinated and have been for some time, so I should be eligible for any relaxing of restrictions when they arrive.

The 12 weeks between the AZ shots was a tactic employed by the UK Government to speed up numbers of the vaccine cover as the efficacy after one shot was deemed sufficient to last a month before the second shot for full efficacy.
It is Not the original mandate from AZ which was a 4 week period, however AZ judged stretching it out to 4 weeks was okay.
The only reason for the 12 week delay is to get more first jabs in arms.

[GoneDiving]

Keep in mind that most of the rules that seem excessive have been put in place to save us from our own stupidity. Remember when we Aussies were simply told to go home, be good and stay away from everyone if there was a concern?? This was slowly ratcheted up as idiots disregarded advice/orders, lied at border crossings, climbed down the OUTSIDE of hotel buildings and slept with security guards. All to escape isolation to attend essential events like a piss up with mates, hook up with a girl friends or duck out to grab some take away.

Unfortunately the idiots have yet again made the situation bad for everyone else. Perhaps they should be the target if your frustration rather than the authorities trying to sweep up the mess and save lives.

[Simi 60]

What he said ^^^^^

[RaymondR]

Looking at the mortality statistics for the covid pandemic in Australia it is very obvious that the strategies employed have been successful the mortality as a proportion of population is about .004%.

Whether or not the economic and social destruction consequent to the suppression methods used have been worth it remains to be seen.

Locking out the virus has been possible in Australia, New Zealand and numerous of the Pacific nations because they are island nations with very effective border controls. However in Australia's case this is not a long term solution as more than half the population has strong overseas familial connections resulting from the high levels of post WW2 immigration policies which the populous will wish to maintain. In addition the longer term residents of the nation have always enjoyed close cultural connections with Europe and the Americas and will probably wish to maintain the freedom of travel they have enjoyed since European settlement of the continent (New Zealanders have always been a more insular society and the problem is not so serious there)

Within Australia the results are mixed. After a poor start, occasioned by confusion over state/federal responsibilities, New South Wales was very successful without the draconian policies of Victoria however NSW has had an outbreak of a mutated version of the virus which has allowed the draconian tendency states to parrot that the NSW policies are a failure. However, whilst an outbreak is occurring in NSW the mortality rate is very low and the better managed public health system there appears to be coping so far. What is obvious to well informed observers of the Australian polity is that those states where the political pendulum has regularly swung between right and left are far less liable to draconian solutions than those where a single side of the polity has become inordinately well entrenched (As an islanded sub population far less culturally diverse than the rest of the country Western Australia is an outlier in the national societal existence)

Only time will tell whether the lock out and lock down or let her rip with minimum lock downs strategies is the superior.

[C420sailor]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Nah, a high proportion of the Australians are also up here in Queensland, in twenty years of cruising the Queensland coast I've never seen so many boats. Horseshoe Bay on Magnetic Island had ninety or so boats anchored there last week and Dunk Island at least fifteen where there is usually two or three.

Beyond jealous. Spent some time in Townsville (and Maggie Island) with the military and I wish I could go back. Fun town, beautiful women...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

Bear in mind the so called "fortress" approach may only end up being disastrous in some way due to other nations neglecting their social responsibility in their inability, or worse, their sheer unwillingness to attempt a serious repression of the virus in the first place.
This has led to the virus being rampant internationally and directly responsible for the mutations we are now having to grapple with. Some of which may turn out to be quite resistant to the current vaccines.

"Sheer unwillingness to attempt a serious repression of the virus in the first place" -- I don't really know what you're talking about. Extremely harsh, extremely costly measures were undertaken in most of the world. What in the world makes you think that virus could have been "repressed"? Only in two or three or maybe four cases out of hundreds of countries, were the authorities lucky enough with time to implement measures plus practically sealable borders. In most developed countries the virus was well dispersed in the population before anyone understood what was going on.


Seems like severe wishful thinking plus gross overestimation of how much control we have over this phenomenon.

[Seaworthy Lass]

The “reality of living in Australia” has varied dramatically from state to state.

Residents in Tasmania and Western Australia (and also South Australia and Queensland to some degree) have lived life much as they did before COVID-19, apart from travel restrictions.

Residents of NSW and Victoria make up more than half the population of Australia and their lives have been vastly different during this pandemic.

Sydney has been in full lockdown for several weeks now and this is unlikely to ease for months with cases although still relatively low, now out of control.

Melbourne with a population of 5+ million has now had a total of 200+ days of strict stay at home lockdown conditions. These have been some of the strictest worldwide with exercise limited to an hour a day, a five km travel radius imposed and for some of the time a 9-5 curfew. These may or may not ease in coming weeks.

This is taking a huge toll on the population. A photo I have just received of my five year old god-daughter who started school this year, was unsettling. Having been told lockdown was extending she retreated again to bed, snuggled a toy she has not needed to sleep with for over a year and buried her head under a pillow. A previously happy, well adjusted child has been suffering significantly. She is not alone.

Australia’s tactics are certainly taking their toll.

As Dockhead has stated, no conclusions can be made regarding what strategies have been successful worldwide not only until this pandemic is over, but in the aftermath. Although Australia’s death rate has been very low so far, this is not the only benchmark. Congratulations are premature.

SWL

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

.................

Within Australia the results are mixed. After a poor start, occasioned by confusion over state/federal responsibilities, New South Wales was very successful without the draconian policies of Victoria however NSW has had an outbreak of a mutated version of the virus which has allowed the draconian tendency states to parrot that the NSW policies are a failure. However, whilst an outbreak is occurring in NSW the mortality rate is very low and the better managed public health system there appears to be coping so far. What is obvious to well informed observers of the Australian polity is that those states where the political pendulum has regularly swung between right and left are far less liable to draconian solutions than those where a single side of the polity has become inordinately well entrenched (As an islanded sub population far less culturally diverse than the rest of the country Western Australia is an outlier in the national societal existence)

Only time will tell whether the lock out and lock down or let her rip with minimum lock downs strategies is the superior.

Not looking too good for their health system according to this.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/...25-p58lum.html

The reason mortality is so low in NSW is down to the fact that a pretty high percentage of older people - ie over 60 - have been fully vaxxed. Mortality is mainly in the old unvaxxed population.

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It would be great if you guys would spped up your vaccination program. It can certainly be done -- look at Europe which was so far behind the UK and US a few months ago and has now caught up or passed.

last month just passed nsw has set a new world record for the fastest mass vaccination

start months ago would have been better, but once going they have done a good job

cheers,

[El Pinguino]

Re the Sydney lockdown. The severity of the lockdown is quite different depending on which side of the Latte Line one happens to live.

If Gladys had dealt with the Bondi outbreak properly they would not have been in this situation. Be aware that the Delat outbreak in Qland was snuffed out as was the first one in Victoria. Victoria's second one is more problematic but not out of control like NSW.
NSW is not - even now - in hard lockdown.

[El Pinguino]

Sydney closed as tight as a crab's bum at forty fathoms.
The rools https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/rules/greater-sydney

Mind you there are - more than a few - exceptions

'Businesses that can be open

Businesses providing essential products and services that can be open include
supermarkets
grocery stores including
butchers, bakeries, fruit and vegetable, seafood
other food or drink retailers that predominantly sell or display food or drinks
kiosks and other small food and drink premises
petrol stations
banks and financial institutions
hardware, building supplies
landscaping material supplies
agricultural and rural supplies
shops that, in the normal course of business, operate as or sell and display
pet supplies
newsagents
office supplies
chemists providing health, medical, maternity and baby supplies or
liquor stores
post offices
garden centres and plant nurseries
vehicle hire premises, not including the premises at which vehicles are sold;
shops that predominantly carry out repairs of mobile phones
laundromats and drycleaners.
‘Click and collect’ and home delivery

Businesses may continue to operate if they provide goods and services to customers that are
ordered by phone or internet
delivered to customers
collected by customers.
A 'click and collect' service can also be used by customers to return or exchange goods by prior arrangement either by phone or internet.
Businesses may continue to operate if they provide goods and services to customers and follow the requirements for
wearing of face masks
check-in requirements (for example, using QR codes).

Places closed to the public

The following places in Greater Sydney including the Blue Mountains and Wollongong are directed to be closed to the public.
Retail premises, except for limited exceptions.
Pubs and registered clubs except for
selling food or beverages for people to consume off-site and
providing accommodation, including allowing food and drinks to be consumed in a person’s room.
Food and drink premises, except for
selling food or beverages for people to consume off-site
selling food to be consumed in a person’s room if in a hotel or motel
if the premises are part of a shopping centre, selling food or beverages for people to consume outside of the shopping centre
holding a funeral or memorial service that complies with the rules for funerals and memorial services.
Entertainment facilities, such as theatres, cinemas, music halls, concert halls and dance halls.
Amusement centres, such as places to play billiards, pool, pinball machines or video games.
Micro-breweries or small distilleries holding a drink on-premises authorisation under the Liquor Act 2007 or cellar door premises, except for selling food or beverages for people to consume off the premises.
Indoor recreation facilities such as squash courts, indoor swimming pools, gyms, table tennis centres, health studios, bowling alleys and ice rinks.
Places of public worship, except for the purposes of conducting a funeral service or memorial service that complies with the rules for funerals and memorial services.
Hairdressers, spas, nail salons, beauty salons, waxing salons, tanning salons, tattoo parlours, massage parlours.
Auction houses (except for an auction for food supply, or a livestock, fibre or crop auction)
Betting agencies and gaming lounges
Markets, except for food markets
Caravan parks and camping grounds, except for
permanent residents or other people who have no other place of permanent residence, and their visitors
people who were staying there on Friday 25 June 2021 and have not extended their booking
local workers and overnight travellers.
Sex on premises services
Sex services premises
Strip clubs
Public swimming pools (except natural swimming pools, which may open)
National Trust properties and Historic Houses Trust of NSW properties (other than retail shops)
Nightclubs
Casinos, except for selling food or beverages for people to consume off-site and providing accommodation, including allowing food and drinks to be consumed in a person’s room.
Exemptions

Your premises may stay open if it is
used to provide a service to vulnerable people (such as a food bank or homeless shelter)
being used by or on behalf of, a Local Health District, Statutory Health Corporation, the Health Administration Corporation or the Ministry of Health as a vaccination clinic or vaccination hub, but only when it is being used for this purpose
an early education and care facility
used for a funeral or memorial service that complies with the rules for funerals and memorial services.
If your premises is permitted to stay open under the public health order, you must follow the rules in place including
the square metres rules
face masks rules
mandatory check-in (for example, using QR codes)
'click and collect' and home delivery.
Exempted gatherings

Exemption from the one person per 4 square metres rule

All premises in Greater Sydney that are not closed must comply with the one person per 4 square metres rule, except for the following exempted gatherings.
Gathering at an airport
Transportation including vehicles, truck stops, stations, platforms and stops but not including vehicles being used as a party bus
Hospitals or other medical or health service facilities
Emergency services
Prisons, correctional facilities, youth justice centres or other places of custody
Disability or aged care facilities
Courts or tribunals
Supermarkets, food markets or groceries
Shopping centres
Retail stores
Farms, mines, commercial fishing operations and commercial vessels (excluding vessels providing tours or hosting functions)
Schools, universities, other educational institutions and childcare facilities
Hotel, motel or other accommodation facilities
Outdoor thoroughfares
Services to assist vulnerable members of the public
Early education and care facilities '

Apart from those exceptions everything is closed