Some New Science on Virus Transmission on Airplanes

[Capn Jimbo]

Some useful facts:

1 The specifications for the KN-95 and N95 are so close that you can consider them equally effective.

2. The big problem is fit and leakage. The only time you'll ever get 95% filtration of specified particles is if you tape it to your face (and some nurses do).

3. The usual leakage is around the nose (especially) and sides. Masks with a moldable metal nose clip are better. Foldable masks (vertical) are better. Multiple layers are better.

In real and practical use for Covid, homemade, washable, multiple layers cloth masks are nearly as effective, mold better to the face, and are washable and resusable.


Good Link on Selection/Usage
https://www.terrycralle.com/kn95-mask/

[SailingFan]

This morning I heard a radio announcement that Covid and Flu shots were available first come first served in Gainesville Florida on Saturday this week. I did not get the address (sorry) but the point is that the distribution is starting already.

[NPCampbell]

Originally Posted by Capn Jimbo

Some useful facts:

1 The specifications for the KN-95 and N95 are so close that you can consider them equally effective.

2. The big problem is fit and leakage. The only time you'll ever get 95% filtration of specified particles is if you tape it to your face (and some nurses do).

3. The usual leakage is around the nose (especially) and sides. Masks with a moldable metal nose clip are better. Foldable masks (vertical) are better. Multiple layers are better.

In real and practical use for Covid, homemade, washable, multiple layers cloth masks are nearly as effective, mold better to the face, and are washable and resusable.


Good Link on Selection/Usage
https://www.terrycralle.com/kn95-mask/

To add a little more details to yours:

1) During testing, NIOSH glues the masks to the test fixture so the N95 rating doesn't account for things like a sneeze or cough moving the mask away from your face.
2) N95 masks are only tested for inhalation efficiency, not exhalation.
3) N95 masks are tested with an aerosol of sodium chloride (salt) and not anything biological.
4) N95 masks are tested with a flow rate of 85L/min (for 12 minutes?). A human inhales and exhales around 10L/min or 600L/Hr.

5) And the biggest thing ... an N95 rating does not mean that it stops 95% of the particulates. N95 means that it stops 95% of the particulates for the duration of the test. So lets say there are 200 bad things per cubic meter of air, and it takes a viral load of 50 bad things to infect you. After one test period, say 12 minutes, you would have breathed in a max of 10 bad things. After 24 minutes, 20 bad things, 36 minutes 30 bad things, etc. The numbers are non-sensical and not normalized for flow rates but the point is that if you spend enough time in an environment where infection abounds, you are not 95% safe.

[NPCampbell]

Originally Posted by SailingFan

This morning I heard a radio announcement that Covid and Flu shots were available first come first served in Gainesville Florida on Saturday this week. I did not get the address (sorry) but the point is that the distribution is starting already.

The FDA meets tomorrow to vote on the approval or denial of Pfizers vaccine. This must mean that they distributed the vaccine before approval (which would be smart).

[Yihang]

N95 is only needed for PM 2.5 sized particles. Covid is more about droplets. Surgical masks are more than enough. If anything coughing into N95 probably creates high pressure sprays from the side. I use to wear it regularly back in the day when the pollution was really bad in Beijing.

But like it has been said mask wearing is all about minimizing spread not protecting yourself. If there is any virus around it's gonna be in your eyes, your hair, your clothing so your ****ed anyway.

[Capn Jimbo]

Originally Posted by SailingFan

This morning I heard a radio announcement that Covid and Flu shots were available first come first served in Gainesville Florida on Saturday this week. I did not get the address (sorry) but the point is that the distribution is starting already.

No. No. No. Oh, and no...

[Sand crab]

I've heard it will be front line workers and first responders first and possibly nursing homes. Are you sure it wasn't just the flu shot?

[Arthur Garfield]

MY 2 cents-

Regarding flights on airlines- Why take the risks?
Recent "studies" from Harvard & Stanford professors- paid for by Jetblue & ITTA,
I,E, airline industry.BTW,if you're a Jetblue investor-I'd sell.Word on street they may fail into bankruptcy.
If one had read these,one would empirically know, the "studies" are actually OPINION PIECES-no real studies done.

I always wear goggles & use 3/4 inch surgical tape to seal top of mask to under my eyes and around bridge of my nose
And throwaway latex gloves while shopping.

These were instructions to me from front-line MD and his front-line nurse wife.
They both became infected,back in April 2020,they tell me via their eyes! One was quite sick for 6 weeks,other for 3 weeks


Stay safe Guard Up

WHY TAKE THESE RISKS?

About a year further for vaccines to show societal efficacy

[Group9]

If there is an environment where you would be more likely to be exposed and to catch a virus than an airliner, I'm having trouble thinking what it would be.

No Thanksgiving, with close friends and family over, that could be deadly, but it's perfectly okay to have thousands of narrow metal tubes filled up with a hundred strangers, who know nothing about each other, all crammed together, for several hours, breathing recirculated air?

And, people wonder why there is so much skepticism about the virus and the government protocols. Most seem to have been written by lobbyists rather than virologists.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Arthur Garfield

MY 2 cents-

Regarding flights on airlines- Why take the risks?
Recent "studies" from Harvard & Stanford professors- paid for by Jetblue & ITTA,
I,E, airline industry.BTW,if you're a Jetblue investor-I'd sell.Word on street they may fail into bankruptcy.
If one had read these,one would empirically know, the "studies" are actually OPINION PIECES-no real studies done.

I always wear goggles & use 3/4 inch surgical tape to seal top of mask to under my eyes and around bridge of my nose
And throwaway latex gloves while shopping.

These were instructions to me from front-line MD and his front-line nurse wife.
They both became infected,back in April 2020,they tell me via their eyes! One was quite sick for 6 weeks,other for 3 weeks

Stay safe Guard Up

WHY TAKE THESE RISKS?

About a year further for vaccines to show societal efficacy

"Why take these risks"? Well, I dunno. Because my life is spread out between three different countries, so I can't live without air travel? I take two or three international flights a week, since June.



I can't say exactly how risky it is, but it doesn't seem so bad to me. If it were really risky, then flight crew would be often sick, but professional flight attendants have a lower infection rate than the general population.



I don't tape anything and don't wear a shield. Just a well fitting N95 mask which I do not remove.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Group9

If there is an environment where you would be more likely to be exposed and to catch a virus than an airliner, I'm having trouble thinking what it would be.

Here in MD the normalized results show that the most significant spreading events are family gatherings (indoors or out), bars and restaurants, and events (church, weddings, funerals, sports).

People get energized over deaths from plane crashes despite the safety records of planes being much better than cars.

[Arthur Garfield]

Sobering science

This recent S Korea study of covid infection from 5 min exposure, 21 feet away

"Evidence of Long-Distance Droplet Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 by Direct Air Flow in a Restaurant in Korea"
https://jkms.org/DOIx.php?id=10.3346/jkms.2020.35.e415


LA Times Dec 9,2020
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation...g-for-covid-19

[Auspicious]

Add the MIT "sneeze study" that shows distribution to 27' -- long study pre-COVID that hasn't gotten much attention.

[RKsailsolo]

What a mazes me are typical reactions I get from others when I politely ask for distance... More often than not I am dismissed, ignored or tsk tsk'd.

No wonder this spreads like wildfire.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by RKsailsolo

What a mazes me are typical reactions I get from others when I politely ask for distance... More often than not I am dismissed, ignored or tsk tsk'd.

I've started carrying my late grandfather-in-law's metal cane. If people don't back off on the rare occasions they even have the opportunity to approach I politely point out that if I can reach them with the cane I can beat them with it.

Works.