Sailing in Times of Covid

[barnakiel]

But there is good news too.


Ruskis have the vaccine.


Maybe not the vaccine, maybe a vaccine, but the fact is they have something.


I hope this will work, or at least work to an extent, and that other companies will deliver their solutions too now. It is an interesting race for health and, of course, for the money again.


b.

[ArmyDaveNY]

[QUOTE=Doubleplay;3200557]

Originally Posted by IslandInfedel

Do you have a reason why scientists/governments are fear mongering and ruining their economies in the process? Does it make any sense to you if they don't believe and convinced this is real and very dangerous?
Reading your other posts about Covid-19 I think you are either uneducated about this virus or politically motivated.
No virus will wipe out human race and never did but there's something called evolution!

I think your comment about fear mongering at first glance makes sense to a small extent, however if one looks a little deeper, there are some flaws with it.

First, the use of scientists/governments is flawed since it implies unity of thought. There are many governmental people and scientists who have different thoughts on how best to handle this. THEY are not a unified group.

Second, as to why would they ruin the economies ignores who people act. Bureaucrats and apparatchiks tend to work withing their niche. Often they don't look at the larger picture. Examples of this can be seen here in NYC and I am sure elsewhere. NYC was close to bankruptcy BEFORE the Wuhan virus hit us. New York State too had a $6 BILLION deficit before the Chinese virus took hold, and those were the official numbers. The actual numbers are much worse since 96% off all new debt is off the books. Despite this, numerous groups are complaining about budget cuts, and I am not talking about critical things like fire fighting, etc. They are complaining about cuts to the arts, to diversity programs, etc. Air travel is still down some 85% yet they want to continue to renovate our three airport terminals! Again, they are ignoring the big picture.

Third, in some cases (in the U.S.) there are political considerations. Some people see this as a way to get budget increases for their departments, hospitals, etc. Also to get increased authority and powers. Others are viewing this with regards to the upcoming presidential election. One senator from the opposing party even sent out a tweet that the governors should keep the lock downs in effect until after the election.

Here in New York State, our governor is a tyrant and if anyone dares to disagree with him he takes action to hurt them, and he threatens them with legal action until they are bankrupt. This is a well known pattern of his. Recently some people dared to flaunt him and he then came out with draconian new rules, in effect reversing the slight opening up of the economy. The rules make no sense, but he did it to spite those who disagreed with him.

There are a number of reasons why people might over react to this, and this holds true for many things, not just this Wuhan virus.

[IslandInfedel]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

I think your comment about fear mongering at first glance makes sense to a small extent, however if one looks a little deeper, there are some flaws with it.

First, the use of scientists/governments is flawed since it implies unity of thought. There are many governmental people and scientists who have different thoughts on how best to handle this. THEY are not a unified group.

Second, as to why would they ruin the economies ignores who people act. Bureaucrats and apparatchiks tend to work withing their niche. Often they don't look at the larger picture. Examples of this can be seen here in NYC and I am sure elsewhere. NYC was close to bankruptcy BEFORE the Wuhan virus hit us. New York State too had a $6 BILLION deficit before the Chinese virus took hold, and those were the official numbers. The actual numbers are much worse since 96% off all new debt is off the books. Despite this, numerous groups are complaining about budget cuts, and I am not talking about critical things like fire fighting, etc. They are complaining about cuts to the arts, to diversity programs, etc. Air travel is still down some 85% yet they want to continue to renovate our three airport terminals! Again, they are ignoring the big picture.

Third, in some cases (in the U.S.) there are political considerations. Some people see this as a way to get budget increases for their departments, hospitals, etc. Also to get increased authority and powers. Others are viewing this with regards to the upcoming presidential election. One senator from the opposing party even sent out a tweet that the governors should keep the lock downs in effect until after the election.

Here in New York State, our governor is a tyrant and if anyone dares to disagree with him he takes action to hurt them, and he threatens them with legal action until they are bankrupt. This is a well known pattern of his. Recently some people dared to flaunt him and he then came out with draconian new rules, in effect reversing the slight opening up of the economy. The rules make no sense, but he did it to spite those who disagreed with him.

There are a number of reasons why people might over react to this, and this holds true for many things, not just this Wuhan virus.

Which is why I sold my house and moved.

NY, especially up north, is so beautiful, it’s a shame it can’t break off and become west NH or something.

I think the answer to most of everything is, look at what NY did, do the opposite of that

[Doubleplay]

[QUOTE=ArmyDaveNY;3200597]

Originally Posted by Doubleplay

I think your comment about fear mongering at first glance makes sense to a small extent, however if one looks a little deeper, there are some flaws with it.

First, the use of scientists/governments is flawed since it implies unity of thought. There are many governmental people and scientists who have different thoughts on how best to handle this. THEY are not a unified group.

Second, as to why would they ruin the economies ignores who people act. Bureaucrats and apparatchiks tend to work withing their niche. Often they don't look at the larger picture. Examples of this can be seen here in NYC and I am sure elsewhere. NYC was close to bankruptcy BEFORE the Wuhan virus hit us. New York State too had a $6 BILLION deficit before the Chinese virus took hold, and those were the official numbers. The actual numbers are much worse since 96% off all new debt is off the books. Despite this, numerous groups are complaining about budget cuts, and I am not talking about critical things like fire fighting, etc. They are complaining about cuts to the arts, to diversity programs, etc. Air travel is still down some 85% yet they want to continue to renovate our three airport terminals! Again, they are ignoring the big picture.

Third, in some cases (in the U.S.) there are political considerations. Some people see this as a way to get budget increases for their departments, hospitals, etc. Also to get increased authority and powers. Others are viewing this with regards to the upcoming presidential election. One senator from the opposing party even sent out a tweet that the governors should keep the lock downs in effect until after the election.

Here in New York State, our governor is a tyrant and if anyone dares to disagree with him he takes action to hurt them, and he threatens them with legal action until they are bankrupt. This is a well known pattern of his. Recently some people dared to flaunt him and he then came out with draconian new rules, in effect reversing the slight opening up of the economy. The rules make no sense, but he did it to spite those who disagreed with him.

There are a number of reasons why people might over react to this, and this holds true for many things, not just this Wuhan virus.

I stopped reading after the first mentioning of " Wuhan" virus. It clearly shows where you are coming from and why we are in the worst shape among all the developed countries in the World and can't travel/sail anywhere.

[ArmyDaveNY]

[QUOTE=Doubleplay;3200727]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

I stopped reading after the first mentioning of " Wuhan" virus. It clearly shows where you are coming from and why we are in the worst shape among all the developed countries in the World and can't travel/sail anywhere.

Viruses are traditionally named after the area they are discovered in. Examples include the Spanish flu, West Nile, Zika, Marburg, Ebola, Wuhan virus, Lyme disease, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, Ross River Fever, Norovirus, and the list goes on. And on, and on.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by IslandInfedel

Which is why I sold my house and moved.

NY, especially up north, is so beautiful, it’s a shame it can’t break off and become west NH or something.

I think the answer to most of everything is, look at what NY did, do the opposite of that

Well said, on all points. The rules make no sense in most cases. A friend of mine jokes that he is the same height sitting on a bar stool as he is standing, and he is right. Despite this, he has to wear a mask while standing at the bar, but not if he is sitting on a stool!

A bar must sell food so apparently this virus is so smart that it can tell when a bar is serving food and when it is not. Per the apparatchiks in NYS, I can go into a big box store with 500 or 600 people, but I cannot go into a mom and pop store or restaurant with four people.

It would be funny if the results of this lock down weren't so terrible. In the Bronx, calls to the child abuse hotline are up 800%. Suicides, domestic abuse, overdoses, stress related deaths, etc. are all up. We haven't even counted the deaths from delayed treatment for other medical conditions.

[RaymondR]

[QUOTE=Doubleplay;3200727]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

I stopped reading after the first mentioning of " Wuhan" virus. It clearly shows where you are coming from and why we are in the worst shape among all the developed countries in the World and can't travel/sail anywhere.

I'm with you on this one ArmyDaveNY.

The state the US is largely reflects it's large population, it is well down the list on cases per head of population. Consequently on any objective measure the US is not in the "worse shape among developed countries in the world". The developed countries also tend to have demographics skewed towards the age related vulnerabilities.

You can't sail anywhere because many countries have closed their borders to travelers not just those from the US.

Your comments "clearly show where you are coming from" and you need to give up this nihilistic national self hatred. The United States has faults but generally tries to do the most good for the most members of it's population and is a very good world citizen.

[dwedeking2]

Originally Posted by atoll

250lbs fairly well describes McDonalds America, or 10% or more of the population.

that is potentially a huge death toll,considering the current infection rate estimated to be so far about 10-15% of the population,like 10 hiroshima's when all is done

Sounds like a reason to lose weight. Been told for 30 years your fat ass is a liability. Change your diet. (I'm a person that lost a lot of weight due to a health issue so I hate sounding like a "told you so" but ****). Why isn't there a call to lost weight as well as wear a mask.

[Doubleplay]

[QUOTE=RaymondR;3201004]

Originally Posted by Doubleplay

I'm with you on this one ArmyDaveNY.

The state the US is largely reflects it's large population, it is well down the list on cases per head of population. Consequently on any objective measure the US is not in the "worse shape among developed countries in the world". The developed countries also tend to have demographics skewed towards the age related vulnerabilities.

You can't sail anywhere because many countries have closed their borders to travelers not just those from the US.

Your comments "clearly show where you are coming from" and you need to give up this nihilistic national self hatred. The United States has faults but generally tries to do the most good for the most members of it's population and is a very good world citizen.

Would you like to switch your health care system with ours or handling the Covid pandemic for that matter? Criticizing your own country is not self hatred but it's the best way to get better and being a patriot instead of a blind nationalist. As far as being a World citizen, %75 of our population have no idea or care about the World and don't even have a passport.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

Suicides, domestic abuse, overdoses, stress related deaths, etc. are all up. We haven't even counted the deaths from delayed treatment for other medical conditions.

Yes they are all counted, actually. All deaths show up in the "excess deaths" number, and in most places with a high excess death rate, confirmed COVID-19 deaths makes up at least 60%, and deaths that are suspected CV but not tested (due to test kit and staff shortages) a bunch more.

Deaths from air pollution and car accidents have gone down this spring, so there's that...

So yeah there's some collateral deaths as a direct or indirect result of lockdowns and other restrictions, but they are a small fraction of the current COVID-19 deaths, and would be tiny compared to the deaths from not taking strong action.

[boatman61]

[QUOTE=Doubleplay;3200557]

Originally Posted by IslandInfedel

Who said it was a hoax?

Think he clearly said people are fear mongering this virus well beyond its morality and morbidity abilities


Well a lot of people including some major news channel in the good old USA did.
Do you have a reason why scientists/governments are fear mongering and ruining their economies in the process? Does it make any sense to you if they don't believe and convinced this is real and very dangerous?
Reading your other posts about Covid-19 I think you are either uneducated about this virus or politically motivated.
No virus will wipe out human race and never did but there's something called evolution!

Its that thing that weeds out the runts in the litter.. nature has a way of trimming the excess and when it boils down to it we are just another species.
Many animals reduce their litter size or stop breeding in hard times.. others like rabbits and lemmings go crazy.
As for science.. Sugar is bad.. Sugar is good.. Salt is bad.. Salt is good(true).. Science swings back and forth like a pendulum on a host of things.
Still think its a Lab source virus.

[Doubleplay]

[QUOTE=boatman61;3201305]

Originally Posted by Doubleplay

Its that thing that weeds out the runts in the litter.. nature has a way of trimming the excess and when it boils down to it we are just another species.
Many animals reduce their litter size or stop breeding in hard times.. others like rabbits and lemmings go crazy.
As for science.. Sugar is bad.. Sugar is good.. Salt is bad.. Salt is good(true).. Science swings back and forth like a pendulum on a host of things.
Still think its a Lab source virus.

I agree Science swings back and forth on somethings but not everything. Science is evolving.The more we know the more we don't know. However scientists agree that with our current knowledge it's impossible to replicate or create a virus like Covid 19. However there are people on this thread probably doesn't even believe in evolution theory which is fundamental to creation anyway.

[boatman61]

Not replicate.. genetically mutate by playing around.. a bit like the attempt to wipe out malaria by playing with Skeeters immune systems back in the early 80's..
As for a Vaccine.. I don't hold any high hopes considering this below..

The number of winter deaths last year hit the highest level in more than 40 years after the failure of last year's flu jab. There were an estimated 50,100 excess winter deaths in England and Wales in 2017/18 - the highest recorded since winter 1975/76, figures from the Office for National Statistics show.Nov 30, 2018

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Grandpoohbah

Studies in Japan show 18 times more transmission inside than out. Chinese tracing study showed only one transmission outside to unmasked individual at outside table for over an hour of 7000 transmission traced.

Maryland Department of Health current numbers from contact tracing as of last week put 44% of transmission from family events, 23% from parties, and 21% from outdoor events. Outdoors is not looking so safe anymore.

Originally Posted by billdomb

OF COURSE, being aymptomatic doesn't automatically make you a non-spreader. But the DATA suggest that kids do NOT spread CV to any significant degree, nor has there been any teacher in the entire world infected by their students.

The reporting I’ve been reading say kids get it, are more likely to be asymptomatic, and spread it as easily as adults. The study I read (pre-print so not peer reviewed yet) cited data for children down to ten years old. They said there isn’t enough data yet about younger children but that, they said, is not cause to assume younger children aren’t transmission vectors. My nephew, his wife, and two toddlers are got it. She is still in the hospital.

Originally Posted by IslandInfedel

Also even if I get it, so? For the majority who are already not half dead, it’s a really nasty flu or zero symptoms at all, It’s not like SARS, Ebola, hep C, rabies, or something very deadly

You aren’t accounting for the misery of being sick or our growing understanding of significant permanent organ and nervous system damage.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Maryland Department of Health current numbers from contact tracing as of last week put 44% of transmission from family events, 23% from parties, and 21% from outdoor events. Outdoors is not looking so safe anymore.

RE outdoors - the key word is "events"; many people in close proximity, some physical exertion (eg dancing, sports), and lax distancing or mask use.

Just being outdoors is low risk, as long as you can maintain your distance from other people.