Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[Montanan]

Multiple companies and organizations are developing “vaccine passports” that could simplify matters for international travelers. The International Air Transport Association, an airline trade group, is launching a digital Travel Pass that allows users to upload proof of vaccination or COVID test results to a mobile app. So far, 23 airlines have agreed to trial the IATA Travel Pass, including Virgin Atlantic and Singapore Airlines.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by UFO

Interesting research article on RNA vaccines and possible long term issues.


https://carterheavyindustries.files....sease-1503.pdf

Wow, thank you.

Finally some good news. If there are side effects, you won't remember you've been vaccinated when they occure... Alzheimer and Kreuzfeld Jacob induced by the mRNA code and Vaccine potentially worse than the C19 Illness itself. Backdoor for bioweapons installed in the masses. This world is really sick. I hope all politicians get their jabs soon, and don't remember anymore to push for more vaccine rollouts and passports.

Finally some research and not pushy marketing.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Wow, thank you.

Finally some good news. If there are side effects, you won't remember you've been vaccinated when they occure... Alzheimer and Kreuzfeld Jacob induced by the mRNA code and Vaccine potentially worse than the C19 Illness itself. Backdoor for bioweapons installed in the masses. This world is really sick. I hope all politicians get their jabs soon, and don't remember anymore to push for more vaccine rollouts and passports.

Finally some research and not pushy marketing.

And some background on the author

John Barthelow Classen is an American immunologist and anti-vaccinationist. He received his M.D. from the University of Maryland, Baltimore in 1988, his M.B.A. from Columbia University in 1992 and obtained his medical license in October 1997.[1][2] He is best known for publishing research concluding that vaccines, in particular the Hib vaccine, cause insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus,[3] a hypothesis he proposed based on experiments he conducted on mice in 1996.[4] His views are disputed and considered unverified.

A widely-reposted 2021 Facebook post claiming that the mRNA vaccines against COVID-19 could cause prion diseases was based on a paper by Classen. The paper was published in Microbiology and Infectious Diseases, whose publisher, Scivision Publishers, is included in Beall's list of publishers of predatory journals. Vincent Racaniello, professor of microbiology and immunology at Columbia University, described the claim as "completely wrong".[5]

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Paul L

And some background on the author

Would you expect anything less in today's society? - The rebuttals were pretty mild in comparison to what has happened to other Scientists that have gone up against big Pharma.



Science like everything else on the planet is in general bought and paid for, that is what many people simply can not get their heads around.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by UFO

Would you expect anything less in today's society? - The rebuttals were pretty mild in comparison to what has happened to other Scientists that have gone up against big Pharma.



Science like everything else on the planet is in general bought and paid for, that is what many people simply can not get their heads around.

Nope, this is exactly the response to my post I expected.

[UFO]

Its the corrupt leading the blind........

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by UFO

Interesting research article on RNA vaccines and possible long term issues.
https://carterheavyindustries.files....sease-1503.pdf

The author complains that the RNA based vaccines were approved [EUA] without long term safety data.
So he performed an “evaluation” and “analysis”.
Surprise, surprise - he concludes, what he always concludes.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by GordMay

The author complains that the RNA based vaccines were approved [EUA] without long term safety data.
So he performed an “evaluation” and “analysis”.
Surprise, surprise - he concludes, what he always concludes.

So show me the LONG TERM safety data and trials, Oh Yeh, There aren't any. Rather than just shoot the author down, who is eminently more qualified than you in this area, why don't you show the medical research that shows the opposite, oh yeh yet again there isn't any.



You guys are all pi$$ing into the wind and expect there to be no splash back

[GordMay]

“Safety and Efficacy of the BNT162b2 mRNA Covid-19 Vaccine” ~ by Fernando P. Polack, M.D., Stephen J. Thomas, M.D. et al
An ongoing* multinational, placebo-controlled, observer-blinded, pivotal efficacy trial [Phases 1, 2, & 3], including 43,548 participants, found that a two-dose regimen of BNT162b2 conferred 95% protection against Covid-19 in persons 16 years of age or older. Safety over a median of 2 months was similar to that of other viral vaccines.
Study ➥ https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577


* This article was published on December 10, 2020. The study began on April 29, 2020 [7-1/2 months], and continuing through an estimated completion April 6, 2023.

Note: The Study was funded by BioNTech and Pfizer, and evaluated by the FDA/NIH, etc.
"Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for an Unapproved Product Review Memorandum"
➥ https://www.fda.gov/media/144416/download


Dr. Classen’s “Article” was an "Editorial Opinion" piece, not “Research”..
In fact, since it was likely a “pay to publish” piece, it might be more properly labeled an “Advertisement”.
If factually incorrect, as I believe, it would be “False Advertising”.

BTW: I'm not "pissing in the wind". My piss is aimed, directly, at your delusions.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Paul L

And some background on the author

A widely-reposted 2021 Facebook post claiming that the mRNA vaccines against COVID-19 could cause prion diseases was based on a paper by Classen. The paper was published in Microbiology and Infectious Diseases, whose publisher, Scivision Publishers, is included in Beall's list of publishers of predatory journals. Vincent Racaniello, professor of microbiology and immunology at Columbia University, described the claim as "completely wrong".[5]

The link intrigued me so I went looking.

1. Carter Heavy Industries? wtf?
2. My favourite article: "THE DEVIL CHOSE MARX AS HIS ENVOY AMONG MEN"
3. The "scientific" journal:https://www.scivisionpub.com/why-scivision-publishers :

4. High Quality & Rigorous Review Process

   The peer-review process of articles is never compromising and the quality is undoubtedly of high standards. The journal imbibes a thorough, neat and clean peer review process by very eminent and world’s leading scientific experts, thereby flushing out the cognizance paucity and empowering access to relevant information timely, about the upcoming and ever-changing developmental process. The journal is primarily based on values centered on loyalty, commitment, scientific accuracy, and ethics. Our rigorous review process accomplishes our core aspiration to give just right and accurate information to the global citizens.

   If my doctor/lawyer, hell even my mechanic, talked to me like that I would walk away so fast it would make their head spin. What a bunch of poorly articulated gibberish!

I am not 100% sold on the safety of a hasty vaccine, but outright bullsh$t like this makes me want to puke. Or maybe that's just the devil.

Sorry. Back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

P.S. Cognizance Paucity is the name of my next band!

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

The RNA vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna) are “newer” than the DNA ones (AstraZeneca, Sputnik V, J&J/Janssen, CanSino), but not by a long way. Although the COVID-19 vaccines were not the very first DNA vaccines, there were none in use prior to the pandemic. They are all in their infancy and their modes of action are very different to traditional vaccines.

Midway through last year the J&J Ebola DNA vaccine was the first one actually approved for human use, and this followed 6+ years of trials. That’s 6+ years of actual trials, not research and development that could potentially have been speeded up. In contrast, the COVID-19 vaccines had merely weeks of trials before being granted emergency/provisional/conditional approval.

The mRNA vaccines are brand new in terms of human use, although even these have had three decades of being researched:

“The first report of the successful use of in vitro transcribed mRNA in animals was published in 1990, when reporter gene mRNAs were injected into mice and protein production was detected....... However, these early promising results did not lead to substantial investment in developing mRNA therapeutics, largely owing to concerns associated with mRNA instability, high innate immunogenicity and inefficient in vivo delivery. Instead, the field pursued DNA-based and protein-based therapeutic approaches.”
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

I don’t think people appreciate just how different these two groups of vaccines are to anything previously in use. Both act to genetically instruct our bodies to produce the viral spike protein. This is vastly different to all previous modes of action of vaccines (or any drug). We have never before used anything to genetically instruct our bodies to make foreign substances.


It has disturbed me for months now hearing the constant assurances from not just CF members pushing vaccination, but also from the media and government press releases regarding how very safe these mRNA and DNA vaccines are, and how they are “just another vaccine”. I am against censoring of any information or opinions, but why is propaganda such as this freely encouraged when discussions regarding safety are termed “misinformation” and censored, or at a minimum those voicing concerns are shamed?

Professionals in the field know it is essentially a death sentence for their careers if they speak up under these circumstances, but I think concerns regarding mass vaccination of those at no risk of severe illness are not rare amongst those working in the area.

None of this should detract that the SARS-CoV-2 virus can results in a frighteningly high percentage of deaths for those with certain risk factors. These new vaccines are simply lifesaving for these people. Describing these new vaccines as “miraculous” is not an understatement, but they need to be used judiciously.

Another refreshingly balanced and insightful explanation of the various Covid vaccines. The most succinctly informative info I've read to date in fact. You've managed to wade into this murky grey area, remain objective, and actually emerge with some useful clarity. No small feat these days when, as discussed, there seems to be an unrealistic obsession with more clear-cut answers, something which I think is illusory.

After telling myself I would "wait and see" when it came to getting a Covid vaccine, I opted to go out of my way (driving out-of-state) to get the J&J (Jannsen) vax. If not for some plans for int'l travel coming up and other personal factors, I probably would have waited. My choice of vaccine was also partly influenced by the J&J being more "proven" technology, but this may also have been illusory as your comments point out. But at least I was able to make a reasonably informed choice based on the limited available info that's out there, something which I'm not sure I would have had the opportunity to do if the vax was simply mandated by fiat from some govt entity who's experts may not share my personal priorities and motivations.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by GordMay

“Safety and Efficacy of the BNT162b2 mRNA Covid-19 Vaccine” ~ by Fernando P. Polack, M.D., Stephen J. Thomas, M.D. et al
An ongoing* multinational, placebo-controlled, observer-blinded, pivotal efficacy trial [Phases 1, 2, & 3], including 43,548 participants, found that a two-dose regimen of BNT162b2 conferred 95% protection against Covid-19 in persons 16 years of age or older. Safety over a median of 2 months was similar to that of other viral vaccines.
Study ➥ https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577


* This article was published on December 10, 2020. The study began on April 29, 2020 [7-1/2 months], and continuing through an estimated completion April 6, 2023.

Note: The Study was funded by BioNTech and Pfizer, and evaluated by the FDA/NIH, etc.
"Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for an Unapproved Product Review Memorandum"
➥ https://www.fda.gov/media/144416/download


Dr. Classen’s “Article” was an "Editorial Opinion" piece, not “Research”..
In fact, since it was likely a “pay to publish” piece, it might be more properly labeled an “Advertisement”.
If factually incorrect, as I believe, it would be “False Advertising”.

BTW: I'm not "pissing in the wind". My piss is aimed, directly, at your delusions.

Ah, the ol' "Battle of the Experts" -- coming at us from non-experts -- that we also commonly see presented in other science-themed threads, most notably climate change. Oftentimes quite educational and therefore useful for the information they provide, but rarely dispositive in an area where, like here, the underlying science itself is so "new" and therefore unproven. One problem is that oftentimes the contrarian expert is, at least on paper, as equally credentialed by education, training and experience as any other expert weighing in. Not that there aren't well-credentialed experts who have been shown to be engaged in quackery, but how does a layman determine this with any certainty? Not exactly sure, but I would generally opt for encouraging such information to be presented along with everything else, anticipating that the more scientifically viable opinions will ultimately prevail. There is an obvious risk of spreading misinformation with this approach, but not as great imo as suppressing contrary information which may turn out to be valid. In simple terms, there's no way to determine validity amongst competing theories if you're not even aware that another point of view even exists.

Like the rest of the world, I obviously want to believe the dominant expert medical opinions on both the efficacy and safety of Covid vaccines, and now that I've opted to take one myself I want to believe it even more so. But my non-expert beliefs run the risk of becoming personal bias, and neither has anything to do with the actual science. IOW, I have no credible way of dismissing contrary opinions in this case -- expert or not -- as "delusional," or in any other absolute terms. In fact, and based on the uncertainties in the science, I don't understand how either side in this or more generalized vax debates can indulge themselves with such certainty. It's more a choice about the lesser of two potential evils, along with a host of other factors based on individual circumstances.

[petermjdavies]

Originally Posted by Huskybeer

To Dockhead. We have a British VAT paid boat laying in Spain at the moment. Does that mean I cannot visit Britain and come back to Europe in fear of losing VAT status? You got me confused.
What if the boat registration procedure in Holland started before brexit but was finished after brexit?
Tx so much

Get a letter from where it was on the 31st December 2020 to confirm its location at Brexit. That should establish the residency of the boat and should be OK for returning to the EU after leaving it.

Get proper tax advice to confirm.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Huskybeer

To Dockhead. We have a British VAT paid boat laying in Spain at the moment. Does that mean I cannot visit Britain and come back to Europe in fear of losing VAT status? You got me confused.
What if the boat registration procedure in Holland started before brexit but was finished after brexit?
Tx so much

Britain was a part of the EU, hence a boat that had paid British VAT was EU VAT Paid. Brexit changes that status as the good [the boat] retains a VAT paid status based solely on where the good [e.g. the boat] was located on December 31, 2020. If the good was in the EU on Brexit Day it retains EU VAT paid status and retains free circulation capability in the EU, but does NOT have UK VAT Paid status. If the good was in the UK on Brexit Day it retains UK VAT paid status and can freely circulate in the UK, but does not have EU VAT paid status.

So start with where was the good [the boat] at midnight December 31, 2020.

Then determine whether the owner or the user is an UK or an EU resident. Citizenship is not a factor, VAT is based on residency and whether the good is imported into a territory.

Then one has to discern if the good is admitted as a temporary admission [for up to 18 months] or whether it is imported and subject to VAT and duty upon entry to the territory if it does not have VAT paid status in that territory.

Holland registry are you talking about the Dutch Light registration which does not convey nationality to the vessel and does not permit Dutch flagging, or are you pursuing Dutch flag registry.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Wow, thank you.

Finally some good news. If there are side effects, you won't remember you've been vaccinated when they occure... Alzheimer and Kreuzfeld Jacob induced by the mRNA code and Vaccine potentially worse than the C19 Illness itself. Backdoor for bioweapons installed in the masses. This world is really sick. I hope all politicians get their jabs soon, and don't remember anymore to push for more vaccine rollouts and passports.

Finally some research and not pushy marketing.

It's not "research". It's quack pseudoscience, from a notorious anti-vaccine propagandist. Debunked here: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/can...prion-disease/


The same author has written numerous articles claiming, based on scientific-sounding but basically made up stuff, that various vaccines cause obesity, cancer, allergies, Gulf War syndrome, autism, diabetes, etc. etc. He also claims that COVID is a bioweapon.


Please, read real science and not this junk.