For gods sake - Get vaccinated

[chico17]

Could you please keep the subject matter in the forum confined to sailing. If you want to discuss medical or political issues you can find another outlet. Thanks

[Capt. Ray]

So ludicrous. The COVID "jabs" are vaccines according to global drug and medical authorities. Your credibility, therefore, is zero.

Originally Posted by zeehag

i intelligently refuse the jab which is NOT a vaccine, for reasons involving the ingredients.. i prefer not to receive graphene into my body and i do have the treatments at hand and easily accessed, unlike you in usa who are pharmacologically impaired.
when a substance contained in a jab is a substance which is a pure poison, why suffer the idiocy of receiving it. i am not a sheep. i am not a guinea pig and my body is still my own. i present no threat to anyone as i have tested negative and will continue to test negative when needed.
i am watching so many sheeple run to receive a poison jab and they smile..
this is ridiculous..the virus has a 2 percent death rate. the jab has been proven to aid the spread of the virus. as that has been proven as a fact, i see no reason to join the cult of the superspreader.
there has not been a jab that actually worked effectively against a mutating virus..
and i have treatments that have been proven effective.
donot forget i have been rn er and icu and special units for many decades and i do know where to look for ingredients and effects.
bashing those of us intelligent enough to wait to see what happens to you sheeple is a most immature act based on ignorance.
meanwhile you sheeple are filling up on graphene without even realizing your longevity has been manipulated. more jabs, more graphene.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

It's choice to get vaxxed or not.
If un-vaxxed, I will avoid you (my choice).
If your business hires un-vaxxed I will not buy from you (my choice).
If a business hires only the vaxxed (their choice) I will support them.

As I often say in these discussions, choices come with consequences. I absolutely oppose mandatory vaccinations. That is a moral and practical Pandora's Box that we should never open. But all choices come with consequences. In this case, unvaccinated people will face limitations on where and how they can participate in the broader society, at least until the pandemic is over.

This is nothing new. Many areas and institutions limit the access of unvaccinated people during outbreaks of other diseases. The only difference here is that a pandemic means the outbreak is everywhere.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by leandroflaherty

There is no god to sake, nor is this something anyone asked an opinion on a sailing forum. If people dont want to take the vaccine its for their own personal choice and their personal doctor. Forcing it on people is a horrible moral position to stand behind. Shaming is a step behind it..There are plenty of reasons to be cautios, of the virus *AND* the mrna treatments which do nothing to stop it spreading to people. The only thing we know for sure is that they help prevent death of those infected, which very much makes it a personal choice.

(Yes vaccination does reduce spread.)

It's a much more complex moral issue than that. If 80+% of people were fully vaccinated, the caseload and transmission would both drop, less opportunity for variants to develop and take hold, and we ALL could get back to an approximation of normal more quickly.

Because in many places we haven't achieved near that number of vaccinations, but have relaxed other restrictions (cos we can't be locked down indefinitely)... we have more waves. Not as bad as before, but still a threat to our healthcare systems, and restrictions are going to be meintained or reimposed to control these waves.

So yes it's a personal decision... but it's also a drag on us all if many people refuse to get vaccinated. An interesting moral dilemma; how to balance an individual's right to choose with the wider society's goal of containing and ending a serious pandemic.

[sailingunity]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I guess you failed math class . Your risk from Covid-19 is magnitudes greater than your risk of a negative outcome from any of the vaccines.

The problem is the data on adverse vaccine reactions is scant, while reporting of infections is plentiful. VAERS reports about 13,000 deaths from vaccines since the COVID vaccine was introduced, which doesn't seem high compared to the reported COVID death numbers (of which 94% had co-morbidities), but considering there were only about 400 vaccine deaths reported in all of 2017, 2018 and 2019 this is a huge jump and certainly something to be concerned about. And reporting to VAERS isn't even mandatory so this only represents a potential fraction of actual adverse reactions.

[robertwcass]

Originally Posted by EngineerRetired

Not to offend but this is a no brainer and people that see it as political are just plain dumb. Look at what is happening in Florida, HIGHEST DEATH RATE EVER.


Please, find something else to make the silly political statement you seem to need so badly, get vaccinated and live to make your statement and argue your politics!

If you won’t get vaccinated then don’t go to the hospital begging for a respirator once you get sick. Stay at home and die in freedom and don’t put healthcare workers at risk due to your selfish and self centered refusal to deal with reality.

This from an RN Public Health Nurse

[c.K.]

excellent Jedi!!

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by chico17

Could you please keep the subject matter in the forum confined to sailing. If you want to discuss medical or political issues you can find another outlet. Thanks

If you prefer to discuss sailing, perhaps you should look at a sailing thread rather than a covid thread.

[c.K.]

excellent post Chico 17!

[ohdrinkboy]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It's utterly fascinating, and extremely sad, that vaccination against a pandemic disease could become politicized. It's such an odd hill to die on -- literally .

Anti-vaxx used to be the domain of the fringe left, but anti-Covid-19 vaxx has almost exclusively become a sacralized badge of honour for the political right. Once this happens, there is little point trying to rationalize with adherents. It's a religious discussion at this point, and no amount of facts, data or information will change peoples' minds.

But just for fun, here are Canada's current breakdown of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. Anyone else see a pattern ?

So the 60% of blacks and 55% of latinos that are unvaxed in the US are far right?

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by jedijd

I have a responsibility to my family, and those who rely on me for support. Because of that, I have carefully looked at the risks of my possibly getting Covid, and the likely consequences. I accept there is a theoretical risk and an event horizon of consequences, overwhelmingly tilted to "little or none". On the other hand, there are finite non-zero risks associated with the various shots. Until the risks of the virus, to me, outweigh the risks of the treatment, I'm not taking it. There's nothing political, or antivaxx or raving...just math.

As to the argument regarding non-treatment of those who choose not to get vaccinated...I'm fine with that. However, I just want a level playing field for other decisions...let's not treat drivers who don't wear seatbelts, motorcyclists with no helmets, obese people who continue to eat, smokers, etc. To the response "I can't catch fat from fat people" I respectfully submit, you are unlikely to catch Covid from me, either. Make your own decisions. If you want to vax, vax. Still worried about it? Wear a hazmat suit.

Sorry but I do believe that, according to all data, all medical professionals and statistics from hospitals and morgues, you have this backwards.

The number of deaths or side effects of any kind from the vaccine are tiny. According to Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) reports just over 6000 people in the US have died after receiving Covid vaccine. NOTE!!!! This report includes everyone that died for any reason after receiving the vaccine. All cases are then evaluated for cause of death to determine how many could be related to the vaccine.

But for the sake of argument, say all 6,000 died as a side effect from the vaccine. Lets look as some very rough approximations, erring on the side of anti vax.

Currently over 170,000,000 in the US are fully vaccinated and quite a few more partially. So if you were fully vaccinated you would have a 0.0035% chance of dying from the vaccine. If you look at the total number of jabs that number drops to 0.0019%

So far, conservatively, 630,000 have died in the US from Covid. With a total population of 331,500,000 that's 0.19% death rate. That is over 50 times the deaths from side effects AND when you filter the 6000 deaths and remove those that died from other causes and calculate based on the total number of shots administered that will be over 1000 times more have died from Covid than vaccine side effects.

The numbers seem pretty clear to me.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

The problem is the data on adverse vaccine reactions is scant, while reporting of infections is plentiful. VAERS reports about 13,000 deaths from vaccines since the COVID vaccine was introduced, which doesn't seem high compared to the reported COVID death numbers (of which 94% had co-morbidities), but considering there were only about 400 vaccine deaths reported in all of 2017, 2018 and 2019 this is a huge jump and certainly something to be concerned about. And reporting to VAERS isn't even mandatory so this only represents a potential fraction of actual adverse reactions.

That's a massive leap. It could just as easily represent 100% of adverse reactions. And since you mention it, how many vaccine-related deaths also had co-morbidities? The vast majority are associated with the elderly, so a reasonable assumption is most also had confounding factors.

Regardless, using just this simple analysis, the risk of death from Covid-19 is magnitudes greater than the risk from the vaccines. Anyone who believes otherwise is mathematically challenged.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

The problem is the data on adverse vaccine reactions is scant, while reporting of infections is plentiful. VAERS reports about 13,000 deaths from vaccines since the COVID vaccine was introduced, which doesn't seem high compared to the reported COVID death numbers (of which 94% had co-morbidities), but considering there were only about 400 vaccine deaths reported in all of 2017, 2018 and 2019 this is a huge jump and certainly something to be concerned about. And reporting to VAERS isn't even mandatory so this only represents a potential fraction of actual adverse reactions.

A few places put the brakes on the use of the Astra-Zeneca vaccine, precisely because authorities detected a very, very low occurrence of clotting events with a plausible link between it and the AZ shot. Even so, mathematically the AZ shot is still orders of magnitude less risky than catching COVID.

Did you know that the risk of a clotting event if ill and hospitalized with COVID is greater than 5%? Closer to 20% if you end up in ICU.

So I have high confidence that the vaccine reaction and mortality rates are being very closely tracked... and the vaccines are a clear win.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by ohdrinkboy

So the 60% of blacks and 55% of latinos that are unvaxed in the US are far right?

I said nothing of the sort. Try reading my post again.


BTW, as an aside, it always fascinates me that people complain about a topic on a forum like CF. No one forces anyone to read, let alone respond to any thread. If you don't want to read about this stuff, then DON'T.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by ohdrinkboy

So the 60% of blacks and 55% of latinos that are unvaxed in the US are far right?

'Antivax' and 'unvaccinated' are not the same thing.