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**GordMay** · 28-11-2020, 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Complicating simply concepts seems to be fashionable here - All of this can be succinctly described in two words - perception bias.

Please define, what you mean by 'Perception Bias'.

**GordMay** · 28-11-2020, 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singularity

... An ancient riddle solved long ago: so what is the only pattern that, if cut in half, retains the image of it's original self....and not two halves of it's original self?

I'm not certain, what you're looking for, but a magnet fits the description.
Magnets always have a north pole, and a south pole, so if one were to split a permanent magnet in half, two smaller magnets would be created, each with a north pole and south pole. You could continue splitting the resulting magnets, down to the atomic level, with the same result.

**GordMay** · 28-11-2020, 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptTom

... Do I, do we, have any obligation to these people? Is it possible, and do we even have the right, to try deprogramming what amounts to essentially cult membership?

William Clifford have would said so.
➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3284175

S/V Illusion · 28-11-2020, 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay

Please define, what you mean by 'Perception Bias'.

As it's name implies, people tend to view everything with the perception they bring. Facts are viewed withing the scope of their view. Opinions are formed based on beliefs regardless of objectivity. Examples abound right here in the preceding posts, e.g.,

"They tolerate no nuance, and no amount of reality can interfere with their world view..."

"behaviors are fundamentally focused on which perspective..."

Or as cited in your own post:
"we assume it to be true without external evidence".

There is nothing subtle, complex or vague in the term 'perception bias' - one need look only in the substance of the discussions here about attributes of one boat vs. another, typically cited as fact when it is nothing more than opinion based solely on perception..

But reading a philosophical debate on a boat web site is interesting.

bgallinger · 28-11-2020, 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Complicating simply concepts seems to be fashionable here - All of this can be succinctly described in two words - perception bias.

AGREED and perception bias is amplified by statistics, media, family influences, personal experience and gov't.

Lake-Effect · 28-11-2020, 08:54

I think (ok... believe) that there us Truth, and it's our job to get as close to it as possible. To get there, we have to seek out facts. And we have to have the intellectual honesty to consider all facts, not just those which support the conclusion we prefer. Of course all facts are not equal in relationship to a given inquiry, so we have to also consider their relevance, when relating or receiving a fact, as part of a study/quest/debate to seek the truth.

“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”

― Harlan Ellison

Put another way, everybody is entitled to the opinion they can argue for.

Quote:

...if you want to sound off on a topic, make sure you have done your homework.

as related by philosopher Patrick Stokes.

maelduin · 28-11-2020, 10:20

What motivates someone to believe in "conspiracies" or simply willfully ignoring data that proves or strongly suggests a belief to be false? It seems to me, most likely to be fear. And that fear can be many things to different people. Change being prominent.

Yihang · 28-11-2020, 10:52

I feel like data these days that don’t suggest some headline grabbing thesis simply wont be published.

jak3b · 28-11-2020, 10:55

A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant and the crazy crazier.
H. L. Mencken

Mr B · 28-11-2020, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jak3b

A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant and the crazy crazier.
H. L. Mencken

I like that,

Singularity · 28-11-2020, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay

Please define, what you mean by 'Perception Bias'.

Importantly, from an evolutionary standpoint, you cannot have everyone believing/eating/whatever the same thing because every now and then something in the environment pops up that finds the belief/taste wrong/not good, resulting in extinction*. Conformity is an evolutionary handicap, antithetical to evolution. When/where conformity reigns supreme, the species is relegated to the fossil record sooner than later (all else equal).

Look at bait balls (toroids) or prey animals being encircled (2D ~toroids)...invariable you get this/that guy pulling away from the shoal/herd/school (if human). Those who peel off indeed are at high risk of predation but, in the aggregate, this nuance of neurology (conscious or not) simply aids in species survival [[not all who wander are lost]]. Ever heard of any famous school drop-outs? Some are the worst of the species, but it only takes the occasional "good" dropout (routinely dyslexic or half "crazy" (i.e. neuro-atypical)) to invent/discover something that exponentially grows the species more than lost by the drop-out sociopaths**. It's ~literally a numbers game that some people can't be convinced of stuff...and why people get what they deserve (law of large numbers/regression to the mean).

Perhaps exceedingly counter-intuitive and deemed irrelevant for practical purposes, it's impossible for two people to see anything exactly the same way, even if they wanted to. Psychobabble to some, that's just the way it is for myriad reasons, which has been known to humanity for a very, very long time, and I suggest is the heart of the subject here. To not understand this "permanently different perspective" business is quite problematic, while certain elements of society reinforce the ideas that "everyone is created equal" and that with enough work you can find the "truth." <---language to herd lemmings wherever you tell them that the "truth" is. But again, some will turn away no matter what...it's biological (via neurological) in the least. Best we can do is approximate the truth.

Consider that the term "good" merely means something that connects two things in a favorable manner (PEI *ghedh). Sort of akin to an intersection that we like. Notably in arabic jbr, also, means to reunite two things that are broken. If I have a peanut allergy and you don't, we're not going to agree on if peanuts are "good/algebra," no less gazillions of other things.

*Consider that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again always expecting the same good result.

** I'd suggest Machiavelli's ~blade runners, who operate in a quasi-moral, quasi-legal space..extracting more from society than they contribute, exist in the space marked ** above, too many off which attain the highest of educations and exist cloaked in plain site (see Sociopath Next Door book or Snakes in Suits.or Snakes in _____ (unwritten to date)).

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay

I'm not certain, what you're looking for, but a magnet fits the description.

Indeed, a bait ball of sorts. Will send a PM soon.

Cheechako · 28-11-2020, 11:28

I'm a "facts is facts" guy. BUT, the trouble with many Facts is,; Unless you know how the question was specifically asked, or if EVERY variable was included, or the actual study parameters, they may not be facts in a particular context at all.