Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments

[Valiente]

In Jan 16, i asked several questions to Mr Cockcroft about DYC programs, and what protection i had if during the duration of program, DYC went bust, as i had no title on the boat.
His answer was, that if i worried that happening, the program was not for me.
Surely it wasn't!

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by AthenaB

As an owner with DYC who has watched this thread with interest since it emerged I feel I should respond. This is my first post on Cruisers Forum.

Firstly, let's spare a thought for all those employees in DYC, other charter companies and the associated marine industry, who have lost jobs or significant revenue during this crisis.

We are Dream Easy owners (35% down, 25% payment at end of contract for full title) of a Lagoon 450S based in Greece. So, as some above have commented, we are most exposed at this stage in terms of title if DYC goes hulls up (and no, I don't want to start a debate about catamarans capsizing!). We chose this route over the Guaranteed Income route because we could afford the down payment at the time and then save the remaining balloon payment, which we have done - it is waiting to go when the yacht is due to come out of the fleet in November 2024. We considered the risks mentioned above re exposure but, given a health scare a few years back, we figured it was better to go sailing throughout the duration of the contract (we sail a minimum of four weeks a year as part of the owner usage) than to keep the money accumulating in the bank and miss out on all the fun along the way. Also, we cannot sail more than 5-6 weeks a year, so we figured it was better to have a charter boat than to have a yacht sitting idle most of the year in a marina in one location - we love the fact that we can sail in so many bases around the world on high quality, well maintained yachts and can vouch for the fact that in almost every case to date, we have sailed DYC yachts in good condition. We have no headaches re maintenance, insurance etc. during this period and, especially under Covid 19, it is good to know that the boat is in a fleet which is being maintained, as Greece is already opening up and yachts are moving. The maintenance in Greece is first rate. We live and work in Saudi Arabia and cannot travel right now, but don't have to worry about the yacht. Yes, we remain exposed if DYC does not stay operational, but given recent developments in Europe and elsewhere, we can only hope, especially for the sake of its employees and the service industry surrounding charter fleets, that things get better and the companies bounce back as they have after Irma etc. Loic Bonnet has stated elsewhere that they have contingencies in place to weather the storm at least through to September and we can only hope that employees and owners alike are carried through.

DYC has come in for a lot of criticism; I can't comment on others' experiences but I can give a good word for DYC based upon our experience to date. Our contract started with a yacht in Seychelles, and the contract is set for South Africa, not Mauritius, in the event of a dispute. We became concerned with the year long usage of yachts in Seychelles and their rapid turnaround time given its popularity as a destination... Compared to yachts in Thailand and the Med, for example, it was impossible for the base team to keep the same standards of maintenance. We sailed a Lagoon 450 in Thailand right at the end of its fleet time before it was due to go to its owner and we were very impressed - even before the Phase Out work had been done, she was in great condition. We therefore requested a switch to a yacht in Thailand or the Med and the company was very accommodating: Loic Bonnet was personally involved in approving an extension to our contract on a new yacht in Greece and we could not be happier with her first season (she appears in a YouTube video on late season sailing in the Ionian and is in great condition). She has recently been moved to Athens. Our new contract was very fair in terms of its extension, which has given us extended sailing time whilst I am still working and we have planned retirement to coincide with taking the full title in November 2024, before long term cruising in the Med and a circumnavigation. So, this owner is happy to endorse DYC and its willingness to take care of its owners. And, no, I am not an employee, nor writing on behalf of DYC... This is purely an independent view to provide a balanced view point for those who may be considering charter ownership.

As many of you will be thinking, what if... ? Yes, what if, and yes, we are exposed... but then again, I'd rather have been sailing at every opportunity these past few years than sitting on a lump of cash waiting for retirement, living the dream through forums and YouTube. If DYC survives, along with the other companies (we surely all want that) then we will continue to enjoy 4-6 weeks a year sailing until retirement in great locations worldwide, on a variety of similar quality yachts to the L450S... and feel pretty confident based upon all I have seen re the yacht maintenance programme in Greece that ours will be in good condition come Phase Out. And in the unlikely scenario that DYC goes hulls up...? We will do what we can to get out as much as possible but like many will have to accept whatever losses come our way and use the balloon payment amount saved to start again. I suspect many will have lost much more than us on stock markets, job losses and other ventures... It's tough worldwide and we have to do the best we can with the outcomes we have before us.

Would we do it again? We owned a Sunsail yacht in the 90s when the Partnership scheme was first launched and enjoyed great sailing for 5.5 years before handing the yacht back, as the kids had come along by then and we had other financial commitments which meant boat ownership at the time did not make sense. She was also in great condition at the time and we could easily have kept her... So, yes, we have had two very good experiences with charter yacht ownership and would do it again.

This is helpful. I was one of the early naysayers in this thread saying get the boat out asap. I'm still more or less in that camp for DYC , but for the thread drift a out the wisdom of these programs in general, good to a full throated defense of the model. Life is not a series of financially sensible transactions, lord knows a boat is rarely financially sensible. Neither are houses, cars, or even having children. Decisions are made based on non-financial factors. This post articulates the benefits for such a program well.

Peter

[bstreep]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

This is helpful. I was one of the early naysayers in this thread saying get the boat out asap. I'm still more or less in that camp for DYC , but for the thread drift a out the wisdom of these programs in general, good to a full throated defense of the model. Life is not a series of financially sensible transactions, lord knows a boat is rarely financially sensible. Neither are houses, cars, or even having children. Decisions are made based on non-financial factors. This post articulates the benefits for such a program well.

Peter

Well said, Peter. There can be no financial justification for a boat, in or out of a program. If it happens to work out financially, then great. If not. Well, that big $$ meal at a steak house wasn't a great investment either. Our boat is our escape. When I set foot on the pier on Friday, I'm on vacation. What's that worth?

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by bstreep

Well said, Peter. There can be no financial justification for a boat, in or out of a program. If it happens to work out financially, then great. If not. Well, that big $$ meal at a steak house wasn't a great investment either. Our boat is our escape. When I set foot on the pier on Friday, I'm on vacation. What's that worth?

In Sunsail and Moorings you get 42 advance booking points and 42 short notice points. In low season one point = one day, in high season its 2 points.

So in theory if you avoid high season you could use your boat for up to 84 days, thats a lot of sailing.

The bottom line is, the more you use it, the better your investment! (for lack of a better word).

[Boat Guy]

So, what's the status? Any updates?

[contrail]

I THINK dream has/is opening in St. Thomas?

[svlamorocha]

Sunsail/Mooring is making monthly payments as usual. They seem to have decided not to use the force majeure clause to make the point that they are "solid" and sell more boats.

Originally Posted by Boat Guy

So, what's the status? Any updates?

[Barra]

Originally Posted by svlamorocha

Sunsail/Mooring is making monthly payments as usual. They seem to have decided not to use the force majeure clause to make the point that they are "solid" and sell more boats.

I think you hit the nail on the head - they and DYC have been marketing new boats pretty aggressively here in Australia/asia in the past month. Special sign up discounts etc etc.

[introverted]

I'm 15 pages late to this subject. Isn't DYC incorporated in the US? I wonder if they took PPP loans. When we bought our boat in Fall of 2018 we had considered DYC. In the end, it didn't make any sense for us to do it and we just took ownership locally. I imagine DYC had to do what they did to stay afloat, so to speak, but it certainly wont endear future owners to their program, especially if Moorings has continued to pay their owners. Looking at their website it seems they are still advertising their guaranteed income program without mentioning the current situation. I'd like to think current owners in their guaranteed income program would be getting compensated if the boat is actively being used. I don't know how many people are booking charters the last few months but their website seems to indicate they are open for business.

[Boat Guy]

I feel we are in the land of OZ...The boats are selling and boat brokers will tell you everything is great...It's hard to get a straight answer.... I'm not surprised nor saying they are lying...


But, it's half the story.


I spoke with an insurance broker yesterday that told me the industry is feeling some pain...Very hard to get a multihull policy. I said, "but boats are selling" and she claims people are buying with debt like second homes..Long term financing...



I have no reason to dispute her and it makes sense. Yet, I have no way of verifying it either....

[Captain Bligh]

Apparently there is a worldwide yacht buying frenzy happening right now.. Maybe current owners could consider selling their fancy cats to willing buyers assuming owners can retrieve their boats.

[Tillsbury]

It could be that people are buying boats in order to be able to holiday domestically in some countries. I know that the caravan and RV market over here in NZ is a bit bonkers at the moment -- people have figured that they can't easily holiday abroad in the near future so they may as well kit themselves out for a road trip within the country. It's possible that boats could find themselves in this market at least in some countries.

[Rennsail]

Originally Posted by Captain Bligh

Apparently there is a worldwide yacht buying frenzy happening right now.. Maybe current owners could consider selling their fancy cats to willing buyers assuming owners can retrieve their boats.

can confirm boat demand here on the East Coast, and not just sailing yachts, but literally anything that floats - inland lakes in particular. Slips for daysailers/power boats are few and far between and pboat dealers (at least in the Southeast US) have limited to no inventory.


The water has becomes the place for social distancing this summer.

[Barra]

With such a buoyant market I wonder why group beneteau just shut their US factories? Perhaps they see a storm on the horizon....

Originally Posted by Rennsail

can confirm boat demand here on the East Coast, and not just sailing yachts, but literally anything that floats - inland lakes in particular. Slips for daysailers/power boats are few and far between and pboat dealers (at least in the Southeast US) have limited to no inventory.


The water has becomes the place for social distancing this summer.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Barra

With such a buoyant market I wonder why group beneteau just shut their US factories? Perhaps they see a storm on the horizon....

I’m sure their decision was over a couple of years most likely, where this virus is a only a few months old, and well who knows what it’s impact is or will be.
Local Sheriff is blaming a rise in petty theft in my area on the virus, wonder how that link was made?