Covid vaccines: risk vs benefit alarming news

[jtsailjt]

Slaves wear masks, who knew? I always thought it was mostly bank robbers and kids out trick-or-treating who wore them. So I guess I got some useful knowledge from this thread after all. [emoji106]

[Shanachie]

So I was loading my sailboat for a long spring cruise today when the guy cleaning a boat bottom nearby assured me that I didn't need to worry about covid because there were only six documented cases in the world.


He knew, he said, because HE had been in the MILITARY as he donned his wetsuit and prepared to absorb a bunch of toxins in a polluted marina for $12 or $15 an hour.


I told him I preferred getting medical advice from a doctor. His chosen field? Maybe he can steer me onto a good bottom paint.


I've also been assured by a guy running a third-rate boat chandlery that I didn't need to wear a mask because it actually increased the spread of covid.


I wondered where he got his degree in epidemiology and what happened to his career that he was spending his time selling me prop zincs and boat soap in a rundown shopping plaza.


Having a $200 computer, a free web browser and links to conspiracy web sites does not make you intelligent. You need to try reading great books, studying the sciences and thinking critically.



It is said that a true sign of intelligence is when you understand that you don't know many things. And that a sign of stupidity is when you think you know things that just ain't so.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Belezar

(The following is a US view)It is amazing to me after 911, we spent trillions of dollars, totally revamped travel, have to take off shoes and belts, carry better ID and everyone went along. 3000 some deaths. Now with well over a half million dead, more than all the wars in the last 100 years, so many of our countrymen say they will do nothing to help their fellow citizens. “It infringes my rights” what a piss ass thought process.

You have no idea about the million war victims of the last 100 years.

[fourlyons]

Actually, I believe he was referring to US war dead (as noted at the beginning of the post) of the last 100 years, for which he is correct.

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

You have no idea about the million war victims of the last 100 years.

[CarlF]

Why hasn't this thread been deleted? It has nothing to do with cruising.

If CruisersForum feels it must provide a platform for looney conspiracy theories - let it at least be about anchors.

[Alistair242]

India is not only administering the AstraZeneca vaccine to their people but they are also producing it locally.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...th-full-vigour

In fact it was they who donated 20,000 doses to the Bahamas a week or so ago. To those who suggest that India has a better resistance rate than other countries by going the route of natural herd immunity you are very wrong.
There has a been a massive surge in India Covid 19 cases in the last week and they are scrambling to vaccinate as many of their people as possible.

[Shanachie]

It's a futile attempt to make stupid people not be stupid. (Place your head near a wall. Bang it repeatedly. Eventually realize that no matter how hard you try, you can't fix stupid. Let nature take its course.)

[SV_FlyingTigress]

Originally Posted by Montanan

We have company paid weight loss and exercise programs, e.g. gym memberships. Will be implementing carrot approaches to achieving weight and fitness goals.

There be the genetic / metabolic disorders that are causes of obesity, but for the vast majority it is just diet and lack of exercise that makes for chubbyiness and greatly increases health risks.

Indeed I perceive that one could use BMI or waist to height ratios as a metric for pricing in health and life insurance premiums. Pay by the excess pound. Ditto for airplane ticket prices. One pays for baggage exceeding say 50 pounds, charge the flyers more for their body mass.

Hi Montanan, I am with you on the diet and exercise tied to benefits. That said, I would suggest you consider some other factors regarding dismissing employees regarding Covid issues. I do data analytics for a living, my wife is a physician specializing in obesity, diabetes, my daughter is also a physician and my best friend is an immunology physician. We have dinner bi-weekly, an as you would expect, this conversation comes up and did again last night. They are pro-vaccine (as you would expect) but one thing they both strongly hold, based on taking a *strictly scientific/clinical perspective* on the data that is available to them (and that I have reviewed and also analyzed), is that people who have been *proven* by test to have had and recovered from covid19 have robust immune response such that the numbers of absolutely proven covid reinfection in the US is significantly smaller than things like the number of people struck by lightning every year. To be sure there are other people who have had Covid reinfection that just weren't caught in testing, but what data there is suggests reinfected people are almost always asymptomatic (from a danger to themselves is typically minimal standpoint) and functionally indistinguishable from the 100 Million+ people in the US who are 25 and under and typically asymptomatic (from a danger to others standpoint)...in which population, Covid 19 reinfections are not even a split percent of a rounding error. They also noted that SARS and some other prior coronavirus exposure seem to mostly convey immunity to Covid 19...basically this virus seems to respond well to natural immunity and be nothing special, to say the least, regarding reinfection. Also on the good news front, it seems that although Covid is mutating (virus have a fragile DNA copying mechanism), that true to norms for viruses, those mutations are often more infectious, but also tend to be less lethal (the news is not going to tell you that btw) so they tend to be a natural mechanism to propagate immunity with lessening legality. If viruses didn't tend to work like this, humans would have been extinct long ago. All that said, my wife has had *BOTH* vaccines and is also post-Covid and her work says that she still has to wear a mask and social distance from other staff (also vaccinated and mostly post Covid) "for safety", in a non-clinical office setting...which everyone in the discussion agreed that there is zero scientific/medical basis for and ridiculous on it face...because large swaths of this have become political. So for you, as a fellow business owner, I would gently suggest that you 1) should look into the *raw* data (not news, not CDC) yourself before you fire any of your (provably) post-Covid employees who claim immunity from Covid, because the data I am seeing suggest they are almost certainly on solid scientific ground that, for them, masks and wearing and social distancing serves political/aesthetic, but no Covid related purpose.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by boatman61

And so it begins..
Mandatory vaccinations if you want to step outdoors..
Why should my freedom of choice [1] be limited due to others decisions.. Its like me mandating no one can buy Mac's [2], ...

1. Because you're part of a civilization [community].
2. No, it's nothing like that.

***

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Stephen.

[UFO]

Wow so many angry people and a true bunch of control freaks

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

So, after all of YOU have got your shots, that apparently you want, and can get sooner because of those of us that dont: How is it again that those who chose NOT to be vaccinated are somehow a threat to you who did get vaccinated ?

Either you believe that the vaccine protects you or you dont ? So which is it ?

.

I do believe the vaccines work so I am protected from the variants known at the time the vaccine was produced, and maybe some future variants too. But the longer covid is allowed to circulate among unvaccinated people, the greater the chance that a mutation will occur that the vaccine won’t protect us from. The only way to protect us all from eventually getting sick from some
future covid variant is to entirely stamp it out, and to accomplish that everyone needs to be vaccinated just like everyone got vaccinated against other deadly diseases in our past in order to eradicate them. As long as there’s a sizable group of people without immunity from a vaccine or prior infection, covid will continue to circulate and mutate and none of us know what that might mean to both those who have been vaccinated snd those who haven’t.

Similar to what Boatman has claimed, I also seem to have been blessed with an extra strong immune system and I never seem to be affected by whatever’s going around. I also take vitamin c, d, zinc, and selenium and am in good physical condition so think it’s very unlikely that covid would kill me. But I still got vaccinated, admittedly because I think it offers a benefit to me, but also to make myself less of a potential threat to others I may come in contact with, and especially my 92 year old mother who still lives in her own house but frequently needs help with something. Plus, I enjoy visiting with her. But whether you happen to have a vulnerable loved one or not, I don’t understand the mentality of those who are unwilling to put up with the small inconveniences of wearing a mask in public or getting a vaccination in order to lessen the chances of inadvertently transferring a deadly disease to those more vulnerable than themself.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Stephen_MO

...true to norms for viruses, those mutations are often more infectious, but also tend to be less lethal (the news is not going to tell you that btw) so they tend to be a natural mechanism to propagate immunity with lessening [lethality].

Most of the stories in responsible publications did bring lethality up. I expect that hospitalization data will in time demonstrate the change in lethality, if that's happened. Of course, treatments have improved as well.

...my wife has had *BOTH* vaccines and is also post-Covid and her work says that she still has to wear a mask and social distance from other staff (also vaccinated and mostly post Covid) "for safety", in a non-clinical office setting...which everyone in the discussion agreed that there is zero scientific/medical basis for and ridiculous on it face......for them, masks and wearing and social distancing serves political/aesthetic, but no Covid related purpose.

Until there's a vaccination uptake of north of 70%, mask use, social distancing and some restrictions on gatherings will all remain useful strategies. Surely you can see that, right now, allowing any self-declared post-COVID or vaccinated person to do what they like would lead to the breakdown of whatever discipline and self-control people have left, and would probably slow down the rate of vaccination.

Some European countries are facing yet another lockdown in the face of a third wave of infection. Til enough folks get vaccinated (... June, hopefully), it's not a good time to be making a big deal about splitting the population into vaccinated plus deniers/scofflaws vs the rest of us.

[SV_FlyingTigress]

Originally Posted by Stephen_MO

Hi Montanan, I am with you on the diet and exercise tied to benefits. That said, I would suggest you consider some other factors regarding dismissing employees regarding Covid issues. I do data analytics for a living, my wife is a physician specializing in obesity, diabetes, my daughter is also a physician and my best friend is an immunology physician. We have dinner bi-weekly, an as you would expect, this conversation comes up and did again last night. They are pro-vaccine (as you would expect) but one thing they both strongly hold, based on taking a *strictly scientific/clinical perspective* on the data that is available to them (and that I have reviewed and also analyzed), is that people who have been *proven* by test to have had and recovered from covid19 have robust immune response such that the numbers of absolutely proven covid reinfection in the US is significantly smaller than things like the number of people struck by lightning every year. To be sure there are other people who have had Covid reinfection that just weren't caught in testing, but what data there is suggests reinfected people are almost always asymptomatic (from a danger to themselves is typically minimal standpoint) and functionally indistinguishable from the 100 Million+ people in the US who are 25 and under and typically asymptomatic (from a danger to others standpoint)...in which population, Covid 19 reinfections are not even a split percent of a rounding error. They also noted that SARS and some other prior coronavirus exposure seem to mostly convey immunity to Covid 19...basically this virus seems to respond well to natural immunity and be nothing special, to say the least, regarding reinfection. Also on the good news front, it seems that although Covid is mutating (virus have a fragile DNA copying mechanism), that true to norms for viruses, those mutations are often more infectious, but also tend to be less lethal (the news is not going to tell you that btw) so they tend to be a natural mechanism to propagate immunity with lessening lethality. If viruses didn't tend to work like this, humans would have been extinct long ago. All that said, my wife has had *BOTH* vaccines and is also post-Covid and her work says that she still has to wear a mask and social distance from other staff (also vaccinated and mostly post Covid) "for safety", in a non-clinical office setting...which everyone in the discussion agreed that there is zero scientific/medical basis for and ridiculous on it face...because large swaths of this have become political. So for you, as a fellow business owner, I would gently suggest that you 1) should look into the *raw* data (not news, not CDC) yourself before you fire any of your (provably) post-Covid employees who claim immunity from Covid, because the data I am seeing suggest they are almost certainly on solid scientific ground that, for them, masks and social distancing serves political/aesthetic, but no Covid related purpose.

Couple of typos fixed for clarity.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by GordMay

1. Because you're part of a civilization [community].
2. No, it's nothing like that.

***

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Stephen.

Is that why the French and British fought so violently over Canada.???
The North fought the South in the USA..
The Cavaliers and the Round heads slaughtered each other in the UK..
Of course it's totally like that.. one sides belief/idea trying to arbitrarily impose itself on others..

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Is that why the French and British fought so violently over Canada.???
The North fought the South in the USA..
The Cavaliers and the Round heads slaughtered each other in the UK..
Of course it's totally like that.. one sides belief/idea trying to arbitrarily impose itself on others..

Ah. Our ancestors did some stupid stuff so it's ok for us to expect no better.