Covid vaccination status for CF members

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Hmmm. I'm finding the climate change crisis and COVID crisis to be quite similar. At least in North America, it seems that the same set that are fighting doing anything about climate change are also most likely to think we're overreacting to COVID.

The main differences are timescale and perceived immediacy of the threat. Not doing well on COVID will have immediate penalties at election time. Right, Donald? Climate change recognition and action can be faked, delayed or blocked with little political cost.

Right, these are interesting times for the political scientist. One strand in our society for sure is the non-mask wearing, climate change denying individual. The strand I subscribe to is one of exasperation: there is in general indifference to the massive threat posed by a changing climate (not just politically but also widespread on an individual level) yet we're reacting with a level of fear bordering on hysteria to covid. If only we could have these multi trillion $ bail out programmes applied to change our economic path away from climate destruction (and all the other environmental issues) as we just applied to rescuing the economy from covid.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

... yet we're reacting with a level of fear bordering on hysteria to covid.

Maybe where I am (Canada) is different, but... no, I'm not seeing fear bordering on hysteria... and given the colossal "meh" in the US to their near 600,000 COVID dead...not really seeing it there, either.

I do think that many, perhaps most people, are concerned about the COVID response, and are looking for governments to handle it competently and without political BS... and many are.

If only we could have these multi trillion $ bail out programmes applied to change our economic path away from climate destruction (and all the other environmental issues) as we just applied to rescuing the economy from covid.

There's no reason why some COVID stimulus couldn't be focussed on building and encouraging development of carbon-neutral alternatives, green industries, and cleanups... which achieves both.

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Or... Consider what is best for the planet...

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?v...rpTZp6L5CaGkPg

https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2020/04/16/...dlife-benefit/


https://greenerideal.com/news/3-reas...ring-covid-19/

What is best for the planet is less people! It bugs the hell out of me that nobody really wants to acknowledge this truth and talk about options to deliver on that need. As macabre as it sounds, I would have thought it quite informed if we had started talking about the break the planet was getting from the number of early deaths from Covid. Instead we want to talk about wonderful band-aids like bike lanes and electric sailboats, and yes I am someone talking about those things too.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by danstanford

What is best for the planet is less people! It bugs the hell out of me that nobody really wants to acknowledge this truth and talk about options to deliver on that need.

The problem isn't yet the sheer number of people, it's the number of people who want to live like upper-middle-class North Americans.

[CatNewBee]

My fellow vaxxer, you may find this interesting.

ntv mobil: Forscher: Covid-19 ist eine Gefäßerkrankung
https://www.n-tv.de/22529342

You need google translate.

Basically new findings show, that the spike proteins are responsible for a variety of vascular diseases, the proteines alone even without the virus or on proxy virus shells (like the vaccines) can lead to severe illnesses of the vascular system.

We use mRMA and Adenoviruses to produce our own poison.

Stay safe.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

The problem isn't yet the sheer number of people, it's the number of people who want to live like upper-middle-class North Americans.

You are not serious surely...
1.2 billion in India.. living in a country which the USA is 199% larger than, 1,443,660,938 Chinese living in another country smaller than the USA.. 161,376,708 Bangladeshis living in a country 58.5% smaller than Germany with half that population..
And people wonder why there is illegal migration.

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

The problem isn't yet the sheer number of people, it's the number of people who want to live like upper-middle-class North Americans.

Nope, it's the number of people.

[sagablu]

Originally Posted by danstanford

Nope, it's the number of people.

Thanos, is that you?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by boatman61

You are not serious surely...

Very serious. Famine is at an all-time low, and we all know that western society currently wastes approx 50% of human-grade food. So we still have food enough, globally. Couple that with the knowledge that as countries become food secure and rise out of grinding poverty, the birth-rate drops. The birth-rate is so low in many first-world countries that they depend on steady immigration to maintain population and economic growth.

The problem arises when those developing countries decide they want to consume just like we do. Cars, travel, more meat, toys... the carbon footprint of that is unsustainable.

So climate change from growing consumption, and the resulting drop in food production (lost farmland, declining fish stocks, etc) is what will do us in, not simply the total number of people.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Very serious. Famine is at an all-time low, and we all know that western society currently wastes approx 50% of human-grade food. So we still have food enough, globally. Couple that with the knowledge that as countries become food secure and rise out of grinding poverty, the birth-rate drops. The birth-rate is so low in many first-world countries that they depend on steady immigration to maintain population and economic growth.

The problem arises when those developing countries decide they want to consume just like we do. Cars, travel, more meat, toys... the carbon footprint of that is unsustainable.

So climate change from growing consumption, and the resulting drop in food production (lost farmland, declining fish stocks, etc) is what will do us in, not simply the total number of people.

20 countries and 88 million is an all time low.. ???
Does not sound much different from the 60's, 70's and onwards..

https://mzemo.com/2021/03/26/global-...-famines-door/

[Mike OReilly]

Population is a serious problem, but it is one that is well on its way to a resolution. The rate of population increase has been in decline for decades. By the least optimistic projections we will hit max. population by the turn of the century. Many predictions have it peaking as early as 2050. In either case, it's a problem that is on its way to a fix.

What isn't improving* is the intensity of resource use people in developed countries use to sustain our lifestyles. This is the problem we in the rich developed world create.

Remember, the core issue is total resource use. Sheer population drives this, but so does intensity of use. There are many more people in India, but they use a fraction of the Earth's resources per-capita compared to your typical Canadian or American.

So yes, population is a problem. But it will soon be in decline. What isn't declining* is the resources required to sustain the typical developed-world lifestyle.

*It's not universally positive growth. Some countries are using less ... but only marginally.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by danstanford

What is best for the planet is less people! It bugs the hell out of me that nobody really wants to acknowledge this truth and talk about options to deliver on that need. As macabre as it sounds, I would have thought it quite informed if we had started talking about the break the planet was getting from the number of early deaths from Covid.

I did but was warned to stop. Variants are going to have to get a lot worse to deliver on that but the potential does exist.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Population is a serious problem, but it is one that is well on its way to a resolution. The rate of population increase has been in decline for decades. By the least optimistic projections we will hit max. population by the turn of the century. Many predictions have it peaking as early as 2050. In either case, it's a problem that is on its way to a fix.

What isn't improving* is the intensity of resource use people in developed countries use to sustain our lifestyles. This is the problem we in the rich developed world create.

Remember, the core issue is total resource use. Sheer population drives this, but so does intensity of use. There are many more people in India, but they use a fraction of the Earth's resources per-capita compared to your typical Canadian or American.

So yes, population is a problem. But it will soon be in decline. What isn't declining* is the resources required to sustain the typical developed-world lifestyle.

*It's not universally positive growth. Some countries are using less ... but only marginally.

We don't have till the turn of the century. Many believe it's too late now and our fate is sealed. it's not something I have to worry about, it's my children's problem. Good luck sonny.

I don't think it's possible to stop the rapid westernization of the world and that leaves DRACONIAN population reduction to solve the problem, if it's solvable.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

I don't think it's possible to stop the rapid westernization of the world and that leaves DRACONIAN population reduction to solve the problem, if it's solvable.

Volunteers?

I think it's remotely possible to change western behaviour, to live a high-quality, interesting, fulfilling life without the current level of overconsumption. If the western countries would make that change and lead by example, then westernization wouldn't be a bad thing. It's a great big if, though, and experience suggests that we boomers have dropped the ball, and it's the following generations who now have to pick up the pieces.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by boatman61

You are not serious surely...
1.2 billion in India.. living in a country which the USA is 199% larger than, 1,443,660,938 Chinese living in another country smaller than the USA.. 161,376,708 Bangladeshis living in a country 58.5% smaller than Germany with half that population..
And people wonder why there is illegal migration.

Where are those emigrants from India and China illegally immigrating to?