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Old 03-05-2021, 20:15   #1666
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Re: Covid vaccination status for CF members

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Volunteers?

I think it's remotely possible to change western behaviour, to live a high-quality, interesting, fulfilling life without the current level of overconsumption. If the western countries would make that change and lead by example, then westernization wouldn't be a bad thing. It's a great big if, though, and experience suggests that we boomers have dropped the ball, and it's the following generations who now have to pick up the pieces.


What are some examples of the types of excessive consumption that would make a difference that could be curtailed, preferably things that currently widespread, that you think lots of folks could be talked out of engaging in any more?
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Old 04-05-2021, 00:32   #1667
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Re: Covid vaccination status for CF members

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
What are some examples of the types of excessive consumption that would make a difference that could be curtailed, preferably things that currently widespread, that you think lots of folks could be talked out of engaging in any more?

Meat eating!

Not that I will stop eating all sorts of animals for bacon, ribs, steaks, drums, legs, breasts (boobies!!!!!), chorizo, loins, etc. Sorry.

I have tried some lab grown protein and that was good enough, but still a lot more expensive to buy than animal grown meat. Hopefully that will change.

But eating less or no meat is probably the easiest change to make on a personal level that really can make a big difference globally.
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Old 04-05-2021, 02:35   #1668
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Re: Covid vaccination status for CF members

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Healthy Normal people do catch it, AND some healthy people also DIE from it, as well suffer other problems associated with the Virus.

I've NEVER heard ANY Claim as to 100% protection from Death Or Hospitalization... That IS the Misinformation that rears its ugly head to Complicate that subject.

Spreading Misinformation is well a known political partisanship technique.
Please get out of the last Administrations policies.

We can help many people, if it were not for the desperate need of some to fog the topic continually in the opposite direction.
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First of all I'm not a yank, secondly that figure was sprouted by the manufacturer and most recently I believe Dockhead mentioned it. You seem to only want to believe things which suits your ideals, otherwise its misinformation - Pretty par for the course really though.
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Old 04-05-2021, 02:51   #1669
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Re: Covid vaccination status for CF members

I am hearing on the non MSM web that non vaccinated people are getting sick coming into contact with vaccinated people.


Now before you shoot me down in a hail of hate, I did some research and found the document from the Pfizer clinical trial which states the following:


8.3.5.1
"An EDP occurs if (3rd bullet point) A female is found to be pregnant while being exposed or having being exposed to study intervention (the covid vax) due to ENVIRONMENTAL exposure. Below are examples of environmental exposure during pregnancy:"


* "A female family member or healthcare provider reports that she is pregnant after having been exposed to the study intervention by INHALATION or SKIN contact." Ie. Close proximity to someone that has had the vax.


And again:
* "A male family member or healthcare provider who has been exposed to the study intervention by INHALATION or SKIN contact THEN EXPOSES HIS FEMALE PARTNER..." Now its talking about exposure via a 2nd party!



Pretty scary that they are talking about such stuff! Read the document to see that non vaccinated can presumably be effected by the vaccinated - Good job you lot will have passports and we'll know who you are



The document is here:


https://media.tghn.org/medialibrary/...JE70dIGiH44ylw
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Old 04-05-2021, 03:40   #1670
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pirate Re: Covid vaccination status for CF members

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Where are those emigrants from India and China illegally immigrating to?
Well China has expandeded into Tibet, nibbling at Nepal, currently feeling out India along the Himalayas.
You should see how many Chinese shops are springing up around parts of the EU.. there are are at least 50 within a 10 minute drive all selling the same stuff.. and no, I am not claiming the shops are illegal.
Indian sub-continent has illegals all over Europe..
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Old 04-05-2021, 04:02   #1671
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Re: Covid vaccination status for CF members

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Well China has expandeded into Tibet, nibbling at Nepal, currently feeling out India along the Himalayas.

You should see how many Chinese shops are springing up around parts of the EU.. there are are at least 50 within a 10 minute drive all selling the same stuff.. and no, I am not claiming the shops are illegal.

Indian sub-continent has illegals all over Europe..


Interesting. I haven’t seen this reported in the US but I guess no surprise there since the focus here is on illegal immigration along our southern border. But since we’re talking about exploding populations leading to illegal immigration, why mention all the nearby Chinese shops if they aren’t illegal? If they aren’t illegal what is their connection to the issue of illegal immigration?
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Old 04-05-2021, 04:23   #1672
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pirate Re: Covid vaccination status for CF members

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
Interesting. I haven’t seen this reported in the US but I guess no surprise there since the focus here is on illegal immigration along our southern border. But since we’re talking about exploding populations leading to illegal immigration, why mention all the nearby Chinese shops if they aren’t illegal? If they aren’t illegal what is their connection to the issue of illegal immigration?
Well I have no proof that it's happening with the Chinese but in the UK with Pakistani/Bengali family come visit and not all go back.. they do a family shuffle and the legal ones leave while the visitors stay.. they then return to the UK using their UK passports.
Leicester and other Midlands sweat shops (Boohoo) rely on these illegals for cheap labour and is one of the reasons that city was in lockdown for so long.
Border Controls are lazy and complacent..

QUOTE.. The 2020 China–India skirmishes are part of an ongoing military standoff between China and India.Since 5 May 2020, Chinese and Indian troops have engaged in aggressive melee, face-offs and skirmishes at locations along the Sino-Indian border, including near the disputed Pangong Lake in Ladakh and the Tibet Autonomous Region, and near the border between Sikkim and the Tibet Autonomous Region.

QUOTE.. Unlike India, China’s influence in Nepal is of more recent origin. Sino-Nepali economic ties began to grow in 2015 but it was in 2018 that China’s influence in Nepal began to gather momentum. Having played an important role in the NCP’s formation, Beijing came to wield enormous influence over the NCP government.
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Old 04-05-2021, 04:42   #1673
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Re: Covid vaccination status for CF members

Quote:
Originally Posted by UFO View Post
I am hearing on the non MSM web that non vaccinated people are getting sick coming into contact with vaccinated people.


Now before you shoot me down in a hail of hate, I did some research and found the document from the Pfizer clinical trial which states the following:


8.3.5.1
"An EDP occurs if (3rd bullet point) A female is found to be pregnant while being exposed or having being exposed to study intervention (the covid vax) due to ENVIRONMENTAL exposure. Below are examples of environmental exposure during pregnancy:"


* "A female family member or healthcare provider reports that she is pregnant after having been exposed to the study intervention by INHALATION or SKIN contact." Ie. Close proximity to someone that has had the vax.


And again:
* "A male family member or healthcare provider who has been exposed to the study intervention by INHALATION or SKIN contact THEN EXPOSES HIS FEMALE PARTNER..." Now its talking about exposure via a 2nd party!



Pretty scary that they are talking about such stuff! Read the document to see that non vaccinated can presumably be effected by the vaccinated - Good job you lot will have passports and we'll know who you are



The document is here:


https://media.tghn.org/medialibrary/...JE70dIGiH44ylw
Do you know what the document you linked to is? It is the design of the 3 phase study, not the results. Everything you listed above are the preconditions of the study, not anything that actual happened.
Geeze!
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Old 04-05-2021, 04:56   #1674
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Re: Covid vaccination status for CF members

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We don't have till the turn of the century. Many believe it's too late now and our fate is sealed.
Says who? What metric are you using? What exactly do you mean by "too late?" The year 2050 is right around the corner, and 2100 is not far off. There are many countries and regions which are already dealing with declining population, and many more rich areas that are only growing through immigration.

If you're talking the impacts of climate change, yes, those are baked into the system now, and nothing we do will prevent global average temperature to continue to rise. But the cause of this is demonstrably and explicitly due far more to the high resource-intensity users than the high population areas. In other words, us.

As far as population goes, many of the highest population countries already have fertility rates below replacement levels. This includes China, the USA, Brazil, Russia, Japan, Bangladesh, Mexico, and the list goes on. Even places like India and Indonesia are right on the cusp of dropping below.

Attached is a visual image of the world's fertility rates. All the blue/purple areas are already below replacement fertility levels. Most of the rest will follow soon. It will become increasingly difficult for rich, low-fertility countries to immigrate their way to positive population growths.
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Old 04-05-2021, 04:59   #1675
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Re: Covid vaccination status for CF members

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
What are some examples of the types of excessive consumption that would make a difference that could be curtailed, preferably things that currently widespread, that you think lots of folks could be talked out of engaging in any more?
Just to reinforce an earlier response to this one:

The single most beneficial thing we can do right now is eat less meat. Cut back by 90%. No need to be a vegetarian or vegan just eat less meat.

Fun fact:

The Netherlands is the second biggest if not biggest exporter of meat globally, and a huge contributor to the deforestation of the Amazon in order to produce the soya to drive the meat industry. So soya arrives in Rotterdam, gets converted into meat (cheap meat) which is then exported to all over the EU, absolutely destroying what's left of nature in The Netherlands. And this meat, dirt cheap in the shop, full of hormones, is not worthy of consumption by anyone even remotely health conscious.

What to do: very occasionally buy very good quality meat produced locally if you really must. Stay away from all other meat (and cheap dairy) products.
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Old 04-05-2021, 06:02   #1676
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Re: Covid vaccination status for CF members

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Meat eating!

Not that I will stop eating all sorts of animals for bacon, ribs, steaks, drums, legs, breasts (boobies!!!!!), chorizo, loins, etc. Sorry.

I have tried some lab grown protein and that was good enough, but still a lot more expensive to buy than animal grown meat. Hopefully that will change.

But eating less or no meat is probably the easiest change to make on a personal level that really can make a big difference globally.


Yes, we do tend to eat a lot of meat, and growing all those animals does “chew” up a lot of resources, but I really cant see that changing on a large scale for altruistic reasons. We’re all way too good at rationalizing our own behavior, especially when all our neighbors are doing the same sort of things.
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Old 04-05-2021, 06:33   #1677
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Re: Covid vaccination status for CF members

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...that you think lots of folks could be talked out of engaging in any more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
...but I really cant see that changing on a large scale for altruistic reasons. We’re all way too good at rationalizing our own behavior, especially when all our neighbors are doing the same sort of things.
Some improvements will be by design (eg cities designed around people, not cars, high-speed rail), some improvements will be by legislation (eg green standards in manufacturing and production), some things will become uneconomic to make, sell or own (eg SUVs), some things will be taxed away.

But yes, any change voluntarily undertaken will be less painful than having it forced upon us. We should remember that nothing is forever; many great civilizations have risen and fallen. Wars, crises and shortages will achieve whatever we won't do by choice. For example, COVID is a bit of a wake-up call on the need for better pandemic preparedness.
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Old 04-05-2021, 07:26   #1678
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Re: Covid vaccination status for CF members

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Now before you shoot me down in a hail of hate, l]
Great term and a reminder to be respectful to those I disagree with!
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Old 04-05-2021, 07:45   #1679
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Re: Covid vaccination status for CF members

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Says who? What metric are you using? What exactly do you mean by "too late?" The year 2050 is right around the corner, and 2100 is not far off. There are many countries and regions which are already dealing with declining population, and many more rich areas that are only growing through immigration.

If you're talking the impacts of climate change, yes, those are baked into the system now, and nothing we do will prevent global average temperature to continue to rise. But the cause of this is demonstrably and explicitly due far more to the high resource-intensity users than the high population areas. In other words, us.

As far as population goes, many of the highest population countries already have fertility rates below replacement levels. This includes China, the USA, Brazil, Russia, Japan, Bangladesh, Mexico, and the list goes on. Even places like India and Indonesia are right on the cusp of dropping below.

Attached is a visual image of the world's fertility rates. All the blue/purple areas are already below replacement fertility levels. Most of the rest will follow soon. It will become increasingly difficult for rich, low-fertility countries to immigrate their way to positive population growths.
Yes, impacts of climate change.

The rate of westernization and overconsumption will more than negate any population decreases. An analogy is a person that borrows to maintain lifestyle. When they realize there is an unsustainable problem with that model it's too late. They may decrease borrowing for a time thinking that will help but in reality they are just getting further in debt.

I don't claim to have an answer and don't really care. I'm at an age that it won't effect me. It's the next generations problem to deal with or not.
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Old 04-05-2021, 08:03   #1680
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Re: Covid vaccination status for CF members

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Yes, impacts of climate change.

The rate of westernization and overconsumption will more than negate any population decreases. An analogy is a person that borrows to maintain lifestyle. When they realize there is an unsustainable problem with that model it's too late. They may decrease borrowing for a time thinking that will help but in reality they are just getting further in debt.

I don't claim to have an answer and don't really care. I'm at an age that it won't effect me. It's the next generations problem to deal with or not.
I think the projections show the rate of growth decreasing over time not an actual decrease in population.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/21/2f...18fc1c1eda.png


Hopefully this takes you to a page showing the population trend line over time. If you were to corelate the time frames used to measure environmental changes to this chart the causal element looks clear to me. I wish the time frame wasn't as long since it makes the rise look more sudden but I think we can all interpret.
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