Canadian COVID-19 News

[Scorpius]

I heard an interview this morning re Canada disallowing cruise ship stops within our borders for this summer, with the head of the BC Board of Trade. The interview was on the Victoria CBC station: morning program.

He says he thinks the ships will travel up Puget Sound from Seattle, then out through Juan de Fuca Straits to the open Pacific, then turn north from there - OUTSIDE Vancouver Island and Haida Gwai (rather than going up the Inside Passage).

If so, I feel sorry for the passengers. Not only will they miss the beauty of the Inside Passage, they will be exposed to the big rollers of the wide-open North Pacific for the 500 miles between Juan de Fuca Straits and the Alaska border. Pretty darn uncomfortable rolling around out there - even with stabilizers. I wonder, if the cruise lines do this, if they will be telling their passengers ahead of time.

[AK_sailor]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

I heard an interview this morning re Canada disallowing cruise ship stops within our borders for this summer, with the head of the BC Board of Trade. The interview was on the Victoria CBC station: morning program.

He says he thinks the ships will travel up Puget Sound from Seattle, then out through Juan de Fuca Straits to the open Pacific, then turn north from there - OUTSIDE Vancouver Island and Haida Gwai (rather than going up the Inside Passage).

If so, I feel sorry for the passengers. Not only will they miss the beauty of the Inside Passage, they will be exposed to the big rollers of the wide-open North Pacific for the 500 miles between Juan de Fuca Straits and the Alaska border. Pretty darn uncomfortable rolling around out there - even with stabilizers. I wonder, if the cruise lines do this, if they will be telling their passengers ahead of time.

Well, in a normal non-covid year, about two cruise ships a week call in Seward Alaska, and smaller numbers in Anchorage, Whittier, and Homer. All these ships will have crossed the Gulf of Alaska, which has been known to see some wave action. I believe about 1/3 of cruise ship passengers cross the the Gulf of Alaska. The cruise companies seem to keep their passengers reasonably happy through that, since they sell more tickets every year.

Note that I'm not a promotor for the cruise ship industry. It has its pros and cons. But the issues around cruise ships demonstrate how inextricably linked Alaska and BC are in the maritime realm. In a time of pandemic, what happens in one will likely have repercussions in the other.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by AK_sailor

Well, in a normal non-covid year, about two cruise ships a week call in Seward Alaska, and smaller numbers in Anchorage, Whittier, and Homer. All these ships will have crossed the Gulf of Alaska, which has been known to see some wave action. I believe about 1/3 of cruise ship passengers cross the the Gulf of Alaska. The cruise companies seem to keep their passengers reasonably happy through that, since they sell more tickets every year.

Note that I'm not a promotor for the cruise ship industry. It has its pros and cons. But the issues around cruise ships demonstrate how inextricably linked Alaska and BC are in the maritime realm. In a time of pandemic, what happens in one will likely have repercussions in the other.

I wonder how many of those passengers who cross the Gulf of Alaska (which I have done on a trip from Vancouver to Halifax through the North West Passage) come back and do it again?

[Scorpius]

The Province of British Columbia has just announced that travel restrictions WITHIN the province (we are divided into three health regions - with the Greater Vancouver region having the vast majority of the Covid infections) will continue.

So, if we can't even travel around our own province (and there are police checkpoints to stop us), I don't see our international borders opening up too soon.

[AK_sailor]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

I wonder how many of those passengers who cross the Gulf of Alaska (which I have done on a trip from Vancouver to Halifax through the North West Passage) come back and do it again?

I don't know the percentage of repeat customers. Anecdotally, a friend of mine from down south has sailed from Seward south twice, once taking his elderly mom, then coming back a few years later with wife and kid. He only talked about what a great time they had. He never mentioned rough water as an issue. I presume those big boats are about as stable as it is possible to make them.

I also know that the total passenger volume had been increasing every year, and was projected to be even bigger in 2020 before covid shut it down. I can't find the link at the moment, but I think the increase was projected to be about 6% for 2020. I don't know how that breaks out by individual port, but there seems to be plenty of demand for Seward, and other ports north of Juneau.

Part of the draw for coming further north is that people combine it with land tours in Alaska. A typical itinerary might be take the boat to Seward or Whittier, then spend a day or so in and around Anchorage. Then bus or train up to Denali National Park for two nights, and maybe Fairbanks. Then fly home. Meanwhile another group does the reverse, flying to Anchorage or Fairbanks, do the land stuff, then meet the boat. The cruise companies make it easy. Observing it as a local, it sometimes looks like the cattle industry, watching endless bus loads of tourists going up and down the road. But for the most part the tourists seem to enjoy it. As a local, I sometimes have to stop and remind myself that people pay big bucks come up here and see/do stuff we do on weekends.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by AK_sailor

I don't know the percentage of repeat customers. Anecdotally, a friend of mine from down south has sailed from Seward south twice, once taking his elderly mom, then coming back a few years later with wife and kid. He only talked about what a great time they had. He never mentioned rough water as an issue. I presume those big boats are about as stable as it is possible to make them.

I also know that the total passenger volume had been increasing every year, and was projected to be even bigger in 2020 before covid shut it down. I can't find the link at the moment, but I think the increase was projected to be about 6% for 2020. I don't know how that breaks out by individual port, but there seems to be plenty of demand for Seward, and other ports north of Juneau.

Part of the draw for coming further north is that people combine it with land tours in Alaska. A typical itinerary might be take the boat to Seward or Whittier, then spend a day or so in and around Anchorage. Then bus or train up to Denali National Park for two nights, and maybe Fairbanks. Then fly home. Meanwhile another group does the reverse, flying to Anchorage or Fairbanks, do the land stuff, then meet the boat. The cruise companies make it easy. Observing it as a local, it sometimes looks like the cattle industry, watching endless bus loads of tourists going up and down the road. But for the most part the tourists seem to enjoy it. As a local, I sometimes have to stop and remind myself that people pay big bucks come up here and see/do stuff we do on weekends.

From this end your numbers sound about right - and I have MANY friends from around here who have been into Alaska both on their own boats and on cruise ships - and pretty well all have raved about it. I just remember my own experiences on a fisheries patrol boat in Queen Charlotte Sound, outside Vancouver Island, around Haida Gwaii, and across the Gulf of Alaska and the Bering Sea. Yes, it can be lovely. It can also be pretty terrible. But I agree with you: cruise ships have probably the best stabilizing systems out there.

I wonder why they feel the need to go outside? Vessels that don't stop on their journey from the southern 48 to Alaska are welcome to go up the Inside Passage providing they don't stop anywhere in Canada. Last summer (when the cruise ship ban was in place) we saw the Alaska State Ferry several times in Johnstone and Queen Charlotte straits. Maybe it's a pilotage issue - but surely something could be worked out there (I think the Alaska State Ferry is exempt from having to carry pilots).

[desodave]

Maybe they go outside to avoid timing Seymour Narrows and make their scheduling a little easier. We saw the cruise ships daily in Discovery Passage from Campbell River before covid and occasionally had to dodge them when we were timing entry around Cape Mudge. The Passage always seemed a lot narrower when meeting one of them - and there were usually two or three in convoy through the Narrows.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by desodave

Maybe they go outside to avoid timing Seymour Narrows and make their scheduling a little easier. We saw the cruise ships daily in Discovery Passage from Campbell River before covid and occasionally had to dodge them when we were timing entry around Cape Mudge. The Passage always seemed a lot narrower when meeting one of them - and there were usually two or three in convoy through the Narrows.

That could well be the case. There is no doubt that it would be faster to go up the outside. They could go full speed - which they can't do for much of the Inside Passage - plus it's a pretty twisty and therefore longer route.

My brother just retired as a Pacific Coast Pilot. Since a cruise ship hit an uncharted rock (what 20 years ago?) they now follow a VERY prescribed route up the inside (the passengers don't notice). For the cruise ships and the pilots it's essentially a two lane road and they don't deviate from their lane. They travel in convoys partially because of the timing at Seymour Narrows and partially because the lead boat has the most senior pilot - and the others just follow along. It's a safety issue and one of the reasons we have such an incredible safety record considering the number of ships that come through our waters and the challenges encountered. Watch the video:

https://www.marine-pilots.com/videos...on-from-canada

It's really quite spectacular and educational. It should be required watching for anyone boating around here.

[AK_sailor]

Strong rumors that the US will unilaterally open the (US side) of the border. This will make it easier for Canadians heading south. However it would not have any direct effect on US or Canadian folks heading into Canada.
U.S. border to re-open June 22
Unilateral move by the U.S. government

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by AK_sailor

Strong rumors that the US will unilaterally open the (US side) of the border. This will make it easier for Canadians heading south. However it would not have any direct effect on US or Canadian folks heading into Canada.
U.S. border to re-open June 22
Unilateral move by the U.S. government

NEITHER link worked....

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by AK_sailor

Strong rumors that the US will unilaterally open the (US side) of the border. This will make it easier for Canadians heading south. However it would not have any direct effect on US or Canadian folks heading into Canada.
U.S. border to re-open June 22
Unilateral move by the U.S. government

Links work unilaterally here below the 49th in The Last Best Place.

Okay, so if unilateral by the USA then a one way door, south only. What happens if someone wishes to subsequently return to Canada after having travelled south of the 49th. Might the Canadian Border Patrol prohibit re-entry for non-essential travelers to the USA? So Hotel California like, programmed to receive, [you can check in] but you can never leave.

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Links work unilaterally here below the 49th in The Last Best Place.

Okay, so if unilateral by the USA then a one way door, south only. What happens if someone wishes to subsequently return to Canada after having travelled south of the 49th. Might the Canadian Border Patrol prohibit re-entry for non-essential travelers to the USA? So Hotel California like, programmed to receive, [you can check in] but you can never leave.

I found it by going to the paper's (well, perhaps "community newsletter" is better descriptor) homepage.

It's an unsubstantiated rumour.

By the way, as you know, Canadians are already crossing southwards via air, and returning north overland crossings. This means no mandatory initial hotel quarantine, but still technically 14-day quarantine required.

[AK_sailor]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

I found it by going to the paper's (well, perhaps "community newsletter" is better descriptor) homepage.

It's an unsubstantiated rumour.

By the way, as you know, Canadians are already crossing southwards via air, and returning north overland crossings. This means no mandatory initial hotel quarantine, but still technically 14-day quarantine required.

Indeed, it is just rumor at this point. The article makes it sound as if the source of the rumor has good connections in the US CBP, but one never knows.

The current situation with different policies for Canadians entering the US by air vs land has always seemed a bit odd. Although as I think about it, it isn't that much stranger than the rather inconsistent approach of Canadian Border Services Agency officers for folks coming north.

When I recently drove up to Alaska, I was in a camper van, quite self contained, with plenty of food and water. Other than a place to park at night to sleep, the only thing I needed for the drive was to purchase fuel. Provincial campgrounds are all closed, but I had called ahead and reserved spots at private RV parks. However, when I crossed at Sumas/Abbotsford, the CBSA officer told me I was required to have hotel reservations for all my stops, so I went to plan B and stayed at motels. What I've gathered from others is that this has been a very consistent policy at Abbotsford. Meanwhile, others in RVs crossing at Osoyoos and Sweetgrass/Coutts have been consistently told it is quite OK to boondock or stay in private RV parks.

[hpeer]

Here in North Carolina things have pretty much returned to normal. Masks are dropping away.

In New Jersey things are slowly returning to normal. Some fast food places allow eat in, many do not. The restaurant we went to seemed to have nearly full seating. Masks are still prevalent.

There are no travel restrictions.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by AK_sailor

Strong rumors that the US will unilaterally open the (US side) of the border. This will make it easier for Canadians heading south. However it would not have any direct effect on US or Canadian folks heading into Canada.
U.S. border to re-open June 22
Unilateral move by the U.S. government

Once infection rates are more or less the same, keeping the border closed makes little sense. In that light, the USA should really want to keep things closed for a while longer since Canada's rates are still higher. Although the gap is rapidly closing.

I think a unilateral, one-way opening of the land border would cause considerable stress on both sides. Americans who try to cross will be stopped, and Canadians returning will continue to face a high level of scrutiny. Neither group will be pleased.

I suppose it would be good for American communities that benefit from Canadian dollars. And it would certainly be nice for Canadians who want to head south, but I'm not sure these benefits make a unilateral opening very wise.