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Group9 · 26-03-2020, 07:19

Reading a lot of these threads and posts, I think back to a novel I read in high school, "The Winds of War," by Herman Wouk, and the excuses the Jews in the book came up with for refusing to leave Axis countries in Europe, even as the Nazis were closing in.

Even as I read it, as a know nothing teenager, I kept thinking, "Why ain't you getting the hell out of there? Can't you see it's getting worse every day? "

Woodland Hills · 26-03-2020, 08:33

So what happens if you get hurt, and f you break an ankle or wrist? If you cut yourself or mangle a hand in your windlass? Do you show up at an overburdened healthcare system that you haven’t paid taxes to support?

On a normal April day this would make no difference, but this is not going to be a normal April, is it?

**a64pilot** · 26-03-2020, 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Group9

Reading a lot of these threads and posts, I think back to a novel I read in high school, "The Winds of War," by Herman Wouk, and the excuses the Jews in the book came up with for refusing to leave Axis countries in Europe, even as the Nazis were closing in.

Even as I read it, as a know nothing teenager, I kept thinking, "Why ain't you getting the hell out of there? Can't you see it's getting worse every day? "

As a kid I wondered that myself, thought I’d leave, why didn’t they?
So I started doing some looking and the answer was to a very great extent they couldn’t leave. They couldn’t get permission to leave, and no Country would take them, not even the US or Canada. Then it took money to leave and guess who controlled their money?
https://www.history.com/news/wwii-je...-st-louis-1939

This is one famous example.
But of course people want to believe things will turn around or get better and there is the almost universal belief that bad things won’t happen to them.
Go to a Hospital and see how many respiratory therapist are outside smoking, and these people see end stage cancer and COPD etc daily, and it’s not nice and clean, yet they step outside and light up?
That’s insanity pure and simple, but you know it won’t happen to them.

But bottom line a great many didn’t leave, and I mean a great many, because they couldn’t and or to do so would mean abandoning Family, so that means they couldn’t

**a64pilot** · 26-03-2020, 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

So what happens if you get hurt, and f you break an ankle or wrist? If you cut yourself or mangle a hand in your windlass? Do you show up at an overburdened healthcare system that you haven’t paid taxes to support?

On a normal April day this would make no difference, but this is not going to be a normal April, is it?

Your premise existed before any viral outbreak. So what do you do if you get appendicitis and it’s two weeks until landfall, or as you say you mangle Your hand.
I have a Wife that was trained as a Nurse, never really worked as one but surely she has to remember something, I have a pretty comprehensive first aid kit, can do stitches etc and quite a few antibiotics in the freezer and from old surgeries etc some high power pain meds that I wouldn’t take for fear of becoming addicted.

It’s still way to early to predict if any health care system will become overburdened, and I can absolutely assure you None will care if you paid your taxes or not.
However as Medical care in the Bahamas is free to Citizens, you may well be welcomed as I assume they will charge you.
Statistically I believe most of us will eventually come down with it, only a few will need advanced care as in ventilators etc. and the vast majority of them will need it due to underlining pre existing medical problems, if you have any of those, then I would assume it would be prudent to position yourself close to as advanced a care as is possible, but will it be overwhelmed?
If all the ventilators have a patient on them, do you think they are going to remove one to put you on because you paid taxes?

**GordMay** · 26-03-2020, 09:25

Billing Information - Princess Margaret Hospital
➥ Billing Information | Princess Margaret Hospital

Billing Information - Doctors Hospital (the 'preferred' hosp)
➥ https://www.doctorshosp.com/billing-and-payments

US Embassy Guidance ➥ https://bs.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/doctors/

Woodland Hills · 26-03-2020, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Your premise existed before any viral outbreak. So what do you do if you get appendicitis and it’s two weeks until landfall, or as you say you mangle Your hand.
I have a Wife that was trained as a Nurse, never really worked as one but surely she has to remember something, I have a pretty comprehensive first aid kit, can do stitches etc and quite a few antibiotics in the freezer and from old surgeries etc some high power pain meds that I wouldn’t take for fear of becoming addicted.

It’s still way to early to predict if any health care system will become overburdened, and I can absolutely assure you None will care if you paid your taxes or not.
However as Medical care in the Bahamas is free to Citizens, you may well be welcomed as I assume they will charge you.
Statistically I believe most of us will eventually come down with it, only a few will need advanced care as in ventilators etc. and the vast majority of them will need it due to underlining pre existing medical problems, if you have any of those, then I would assume it would be prudent to position yourself close to as advanced a care as is possible, but will it be overwhelmed?
If all the ventilators have a patient on them, do you think they are going to remove one to put you on because you paid taxes?

Bookmark this post and let’s revisit in 6 weeks.

Coquina · 26-03-2020, 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

Bookmark this post and let’s revisit in 6 weeks.

I was about to say - this is not a normal time. Even in the USA there seems to be a LOT of anger at people daring to move to their second homes. The year-round locals do not want what they view as "outsiders" competing for resources and hospital beds.
I would imagine the Bahamas to be like this times 1,000. If wherever you are is hard hit with either illness or shortages the locals will be resentful of outsiders adding to their problems to say the least.

Stu Jackson · 26-03-2020, 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by a64pilot

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

But people are idiots,>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

A small part of me wants to go ahead and get the thing and get it over with, I assume if you recover you have immunity?

Two different quotes from you. ^^^^

Please don't. We value your well being and your contributions here too much.

Not a good risk at all. An even worse assumption.

Some a$$holes are suggesting having covid parties. Real jerks. RWNJs.

The only time my father, a podiatrist, ever got mad at me was when I suggested everybody get measles, right after I'd had them but only a mild case. He noted that he'd wanted to be a surgeon, but couldn't because he lost a lot of sight out of one of his eyes from the measles. I was born in 45, so this was in the early fifties.

Don't mess with mother nature.

Be well, stay safe.

**a64pilot** · 26-03-2020, 12:24

Everyone is betting something.
In my opinion the assumption that we can hide and not get sick may not be realistic, even where I am now I’m going to the Grocery store every couple of weeks get fresh food, unless there is a break out here. We have at least three months of food on board, but I like salads and fresh milk. We also make our water and have enough fuel to run the generator for months to make water with. We could disappear into the Raggeds and stay until Hurricane season. Now come that season and we are going back, I don like my odds playing with one of those on a boat.
Now I believe that you can get the virus possibly off of fecal contaminated fresh food, God knows how produce gets contaminated with that, but apparently it happens. Just saying that there may be other vectors than people contact, Although that’s surely the greatest.

I’m 61 and except for needing to lose some weight I believe I’m healthy, I take a statin as my cholesterol has always been high even when young and skinny, and a very low dose of blood pressure needs, pressure without the med is 140 / 90 I believe.
I believe if you can believe what you read that the odds of me needing hospitalization much less dyeing is exceedingly low, much lower than some other activities that I was involved in not too many years ago.
Wife is 57 I think and is in good health except she too could push away from the table more often, just like I should. Typical Americans except no underlining problems like heart disease or diabetes, COPD etc.
I think the number of over 60 US citizens with health issues is way larger than the death rate from this disease is, I mean serious health issues, heat disease, diabetes, etc. how many people over 60 that have been smoking for 50 yrs do you think have a healthily respiratory system? So here is hoping that it’s not the death sentence that many are thinking, least not if your basically healthy.

Anyway I’m betting that the Wife and I will weather it, if and or when we get it. Maybe be sick as Hell, but we will get over it, I hope.

Woodland Hills · 26-03-2020, 13:24

As long as you don’t go to a Bahamian clinic if you get sick taking resources away from them it’s all good.

We were in the same situation as you: 2.5 months food, watermaker, 1000 gallons of diesel and self-isolated for 2+ weeks with no symptoms. We decided that to stay until mid-May or longer risking contact with immigration officers or Bahamian Defense Forces and thus contagion was being selfish. If we did get sick we knew that it would most likely result in one or both of us in a clinic hoping we did not need a non-existent respirator. This would have a good chance of being fatal and a 100% chance of adding to the caseload of whatever place we landed: both totally unnecessarily.

We are 66 & 67, in excellent health, non-smokers and non-drinkers. Wife is a retired RN and based upon her experience and our study of the virus information we were unwilling to bet that we would have mild cases. So we left and will hole up a dozen or so miles from the Mayo Clinic..... being on Medicare we feel we have an absolute right to access the US healthcare system. We did not feel that we had that right in the Bahamas.

BTW, you keep posting that you are overweight: obesity is a risk factor for survival of COVID19 and 60% of fatalities are men. You are an adult and you have made your decision, I wish you well. Keep us informed and I’ll do the same, hopefully we will meet up in the Exumas next spring.

AllenRbrts · 26-03-2020, 13:41

I completely understand the thoughts of those that have left and those that are staying. In either case, you should be extremely vigilant to not get infected and to not infect others. To me that means staying on the boat as much as possible.
We are going to stay for awhile longer till we have a better sense of what to do. In the meantime we will stay on the boat anchored out and only go ashore when we absolutely need to, which is perhaps every couple of weeks to get groceries. If groceries became in short supply we would leave.

**a64pilot** · 26-03-2020, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

As long as you don’t go to a Bahamian clinic if you get sick taking resources away from them it’s all good.

We were in the same situation as you: 2.5 months food, watermaker, 1000 gallons of diesel and self-isolated for 2+ weeks with no symptoms. We decided that to stay until mid-May or longer risking contact with immigration officers or Bahamian Defense Forces and thus contagion was being selfish. If we did get sick we knew that it would most likely result in one or both of us in a clinic hoping we did not need a non-existent respirator. This would have a good chance of being fatal and a 100% chance of adding to the caseload of whatever place we landed: both totally unnecessarily.

We are 66 & 67, in excellent health, non-smokers and non-drinkers. Wife is a retired RN and based upon her experience and our study of the virus information we were unwilling to bet that we would have mild cases. So we left and will hole up a dozen or so miles from the Mayo Clinic..... being on Medicare we feel we have an absolute right to access the US healthcare system. We did not feel that we had that right in the Bahamas.

BTW, you keep posting that you are overweight: obesity is a risk factor for survival of COVID19 and 60% of fatalities are men. You are an adult and you have made your decision, I wish you well. Keep us informed and I’ll do the same, hopefully we will meet up in the Exumas next spring.

Yeah, who knows what the “right” answer is, I think we are trying to balance between not getting sick, or being in a place with better care, but more likely to get sick.
Of course if or when the Bahamas blows up, it’s time to leave, or actually a little late maybe, but I think we will see that coming in time to make the decision.
We too will be headed for Jax, to some extent because I’m Retired Military and as far as I know the Navy Base hospital is good care, or civilian, we aren’t restricted to Military facilities, only advantage to Military is its 100% paid, Civilian I have a copay.
Fuel could be a concern going back, some friends just went back and they said people in West Palm were still partying, out in tour boats etc. but I think no fuel or didn’t want fuel there, they got fuel at Vero, where the person at the pump had a mask on and was gloved.
If I have to leave Long Island and can’t get fuel between here and Jax, that’s going to lengthen the trip.
Best way to do that I think may be to head past Nassau and get into the stream and stay there until time to jump out for Jax.

I could stand to lose weight, but I think I’m about average for my age, I’m certainly not where I was when I was in my 30’s and could run two miles in 12:30. Compared to that guy, I’m fat, but compared to the average, I’m not so fat. I just never thought I’d be this heavy when I was young.
Obesity is dangerous more because of what comes with it, heart disease, diabetes etc. I’m not there.

Safari38LH · 27-03-2020, 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllenRbrts

We are in North Eleuthera. Several other cruisers here. We have plenty of provisions so just planning on staying put and on the boat for now.

I think cruisers currently in the Bahamas should minimize contact with shore to do their part in staying safe and keeping the locals safe.

We agree. Anchored off Man Island with 4 other boats. We read the rules as we can go where we want via boat but can only go into towns/settlements for necessities. Groceries and fuel docks are open. We feel free to go ashore on remote areas and to go fishing. The mail and cargo boats are constantly coming into Harbour Island. I don’t think they will run out of food anytime soon.