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Old 30-04-2020, 15:42   #1
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Are boaters selfish?

Here we are on lockdown and the none residents here in the marina are down in the marina everyday working on their boats rather than staying home.

We are even getting boaters from out of province (Alberta and Washington State) arriving daily to stay or work on their boats.

No one seems to understand that all of the provincial parks are closed to boating and seem to think they can just head out to their favourite park for a weekend of boating, our go on their annual trip up the coast.
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Old 30-04-2020, 15:56   #2
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Re: Are boaters selfish?

Yes, they are violating an order. I'm not going to defend that. But let's not create a lasting meme where we severely judge people for moving about, as though stay-at-homes are morally superior. Many not-so-essential business are still open, we all go outside for exercise, and business in general will resume in a few weeks. Instead, observe specific risky behaviors, in yourself and others:


* Solo, family, or larger group?
* Spacing? It's simple enough to go to a marina without passing within 50 feet of another human, or maybe not in other situations. Or is it no different from mowing the grass or walking on the sidewalk?

* Mask? Most people wear them in public settings now, but you still get people in grocery stores that don't get it. My wife watched some joker get thrown out of a US Post Office; the sing on the door made the policy clear. Many businesses have no set policy for their employees, and some forbid mask wear. It's a complex topic. Trump and Pence have made not wearing masks into a political statement.



We can all be selfish in spots. In a few weeks we will need to learn how to interact with people safely. We won't all be staying home and we can't ignore each other.


But you are right, it would be better if they stayed home, for now, if for no other reason than out of respect for others.
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Old 30-04-2020, 16:27   #3
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Re: Are boaters selfish?

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Originally Posted by paralog View Post
Here we are on lockdown and the none residents here in the marina are down in the marina everyday working on their boats rather than staying home.

We are even getting boaters from out of province (Alberta and Washington State) arriving daily to stay or work on their boats.

No one seems to understand that all of the provincial parks are closed to boating and seem to think they can just head out to their favourite park for a weekend of boating, our go on their annual trip up the coast.
Doesn't sound like where you are is in full lock down. Where I am (Ontario), you can't even get into the marina's. The gates are locked, operators are notifiying customers to stay away and businesses are under threat of $100k fines for opening (or appearing to be open)
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Old 02-05-2020, 21:40   #4
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Re: Are boaters selfish?

Genetically, humans are opportunistic predators, sight hunters. Therefore, I think we tend to be selfish without awareness of the damage we may do. I do not think selfishness will change, much.

What I think we need is a much higher awareness of the suffering going on in for emergency and health care people, nursing homes, hospitals, morgues, and the places who dispose of the dead.

We need pictures of people who are suffering from local areas (makes it easier to take in), people who are ill and people who love them or care for them. The more we see, the more real it all becomes to us. Pictures to evoke adequate empathy for motivation, but preserving privacy of individuals.

We need truthful, accurate, information. Here's a link to one, by a doctor in NYC: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/m...york-city.html And here's the one i read today that influenced me to write this post: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/01/o...gtype=Homepage

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Old 02-05-2020, 22:10   #5
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Re: Are boaters selfish?

I think a lot of people believe this situation is temporary, and soon everything will be back to business.

We may need to wear gloves and masks, and social distance, but it will be fine to travel by boat with the family, and why not work on the boat instead of sitting at home watching TV.

If the marina is open, then that is a sure sign they are correct, if the government really wanted them to stay home they would have closed it.

Destinations may be an issue though, since none of the small towns want the virus arriving via tourists, and the border is likely to remain closed for a while, so there may not be a lot of places to sail to just yet, but everyone is hoping, and getting prepared.
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:34   #6
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Re: Are boaters selfish?

The big Achilles heel of "freedom.". It comes with great responsibility so you need to have a well educated and socially conscious population. We have been lacking in those last two.

The issue also is we don't really have a consensus of what is necessary to prevent the spread.

Staying in one's own boat working on it would satisfy the 2 meter rule. Maybe that's what a lot of people are thinking?
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Old 03-05-2020, 03:05   #7
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Re: Are boaters selfish?

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
Genetically, humans are opportunistic predators, sight hunters. Therefore, I think we tend to be selfish without awareness of the damage we may do. I do not think selfishness will change, much ...
Indeed.
BUT, an entirely selfish creature would eventually go extinct, whereas cooperation actually promotes evolutionary success.

We might think that natural selection should favour individuals that are exploitative and selfish, but in fact we now know that this is an oversimplified view of things, particularly if you take into account the selfish gene feature of evolution.

Inclusive fitness (or kin selection theory) shows how genes can increase their evolutionary success directly by maximising their personal fitness, as well as indirectly by helping other related individuals who share the genes. This combination is known as inclusive fitness.

W.D. Hamilton was concerned with the longstanding puzzle, about how a behavior which benefitted others, but not the actor, could ever evolve by natural selection. His solution to the puzzle involved a simple equation:
rB – C > 0
Where r stands for relatedness, b for benefits, and c for costs.

Inés Dawson, from Draw Curiosity, made a great video explaining this equation in more detail:
Much moreWhy Do We Value Some Lives More Than Others? | Inclusive Fitness 101 - Draw Curiosity



Why Do We Value Some Lives More Than Others? | Inclusive Fitness 101 - Draw Curiosity
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Old 03-05-2020, 03:35   #8
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Re: Are boaters selfish?

And then there is the argument that the fall out of the shut/lock down is much worse than the virus. People are, in fact, starving to death in India, for example. So people that don’t agree with their governments response to this pandemic might rebel. They might look at/ read the human interest stories about “ life in the ER” and think- yep people die, it’s part of being human. Survival of the fittest etc etc.
Not saying I agree with this viewpoint- don’t attack me- not picking a side here- just stating a fact about people’s possible perception.
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Old 03-05-2020, 04:00   #9
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Re: Are boaters selfish?

As time goes by we are learning more and more. Antibody testing in New York City showed 20% of randomly sampled people had been infected. And there is little reason to think that the infection rate has slowed much.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/ami...tibody-testing

NYC has a very dense population and conditions there are perfect for transmission of a communicable disease like CV19.

Boaters working outdoors on boats are not a high transmission vector. Probably 1000 times less risk than riding the NYC subway right now.

So i would submit that these boaters are not “selfish”. There are several other possible interpretations of their behavior. Maybe they actually did some research and found that working on your boat is not a menace to society.

As far as the horror stories we read and see in the news, I offer an alternative view point one may consider. I personally know a highly trained ICU nurse. She gave it up a few years ago. She explained that the constant suffering and death in an ICU is too emotionally draining. It has always been thus. Is CV19 a worse disease in that respect than pancreatic cancer or life ending COPD? Maybe, but I have seen the toll these other diseases take on patients and health care providers. Suffering mental anguish and PTSD is sadly not a new thing for ICU workers. The news reports that Ann has seen are designed to create an irrational response, as if no one died a horrible death in hospital before CV19 came along. That’s not true.

In Canada and the US there are hundreds of thousands of empty hospital beds. Even in hardest hit NYC the temporary hospitals and Navy floating hospital are virtually unused.

What we need now is more complete information, not more fear put into people. People are being harmed mentally by unceasing horror stories which are being fed to us due to the media’s incessant need for clicks and views. I fear the mental health damage done by CV19 reporting is much more serious than anyone realizes.
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Old 03-05-2020, 05:25   #10
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Re: Are boaters selfish?

Spring work...most of the time, we are not within 20ft of another person.

Unless you are seeing specific behavior (groups in close contact for example), it's a pretty harmless activity. Certainly less risky than many allowable activities.

Of course, this is a big part of why we are seeing a backlash. Rather than applying reasonable precautions, it's a blanket rule that often makes no sense. Problem is once you train people to break the rules...they no longer trust the authorities and then often ignore common sense while they are at it.
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Old 03-05-2020, 05:26   #11
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Re: Are boaters selfish?

I cannot hardly watch the news because I haven't missed a day of work yet.

I have to shop, conduct interviews with people I don't know, go to the store etc.

It can be a worry. As many as 10 people use my computer when I'm not there to enter their data for our reports

My precautions are gloves, wash hands, social distance as best as is possible, exercise, and get as much Sun as is possible.

Plus I'm taking 40 MG Zinc, Vitamin C 1000 mg, Calcium, Magnesium, B Complex, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, ALPHA GPC, Melatonin, CoQ10, and Uridine then hoping for the best

The Testing center here is still open also. Testing center for computer tech and IT certifications. They do take your temperature there though as soon as you enter

Lately though as the weather warms, folks are out all over the place here especially the beach and the marina

As far as face masks, I see people with masks but no gloves then frequently removing the mask to touch face with hands that have touched all sorts of surfaces and objects
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Old 03-05-2020, 05:35   #12
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Re: Are boaters selfish?

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... Plus I'm taking 40 MG Zinc, Vitamin C 1000 mg, Calcium, Magnesium, B Complex, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, ALPHA GPC, Melatonin, and Uridine then hoping for the best ...
You should, at the vey least, have healthy (or expensive) urine.
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Old 03-05-2020, 05:45   #13
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Re: Are boaters selfish?

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You should, at the vey least, have healthy (or expensive) urine.
The vitamins seem to help me recover faster after my weekly 2.5 to 3 mile mile run/jog/shuffle along with the pull ups, push ups, then busy days at work. I'm mid 60's

The minerals help your body heal faster also, and I seem to recover faster when I am sick with the minerals (Zinc, Magnesium, Calcium)

Then I also take Endurox R4 after my run or after a bike ride if it lasts at least an hour

https://www.runningwarehouse.com/End...CABEgJREvD_BwE
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Old 03-05-2020, 05:46   #14
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Re: Are boaters selfish?

A little less moralizing and a bit more rationalizing would all server us better these days.

There is still way too much that remains a mystery over this virus. Morbidity and mortality rates are still all over the map. It's hard to make any sense of why some populations have been hit hard, while others have escaped (so far). Physical distancing does indeed seem to be effective, but there is still a range of infection rates and outcomes from different countries and regions showing this is not the only important factor.

Boating can be done while still maintaining suggested physical distancing requirements. If done thoughtfully, cruising is clearly a good way to keep your distance from others.
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Old 03-05-2020, 09:14   #15
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Re: Are boaters selfish?

Folks we are closing thread thread and have removed many posts because they contained political content and opinion. Sad really, as this was an interesting discussion.

Please remember to avoid politically motivated comments and discourse. While this is a difficult task given the current atmosphere it is required for forum participation. We share many things in common, chiefly, boating; but we have widely varying political bents and these discussions inevitably end badly with nothing settled. Strongly held opinions do not change and all that is achieved is that posters have amped up an already tense situation.


Do not post political opinion and commentary on this forum. It inevitably will result in closures of good topics and where we see a pattern of this the site team will take action to limit participation by those who perpetually find themselves embroiled in these problem threads.

It's ironic that a thread about boaters selfishly not following social distancing regs ends in closure because a few forum members seem unable to follow the board rules.

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