With lithium do we actually need a dedicated starter battery?

[SOLAR SUPPORT]

Originally Posted by Pete7

The defence rests its case M'Lord

You took the simile seriously. I can't tell by looking at this photo that you actually made this dish, not your wife. But I hope you baked this cake in the electric stove. Personally, I allocated the space occupied by my stove-owen to the dishwasher. Kitchen appliances that work with 220V, such as kettle, single stove, toaster, AirFryer, and bread machine, go into the cabinets while on the move. Picture? Maybe next time. Currently I am at home.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by SOLAR SUPPORT

You took the simile seriously. I can't tell by looking at this photo that you actually made this dish, not your wife. But I hope you baked this cake in the electric stove. Personally, I allocated the space occupied by my stove-owen to the dishwasher. Kitchen appliances that work with 220V, such as kettle, single stove, toaster, AirFryer, and bread machine, go into the cabinets while on the move. Picture? Maybe next time. Currently I am at home.

When the dishwasher is not washing dishes they should be cleaning something else on the boat .

[SOLAR SUPPORT]

Originally Posted by newhaul

When the dishwasher is not washing dishes they should be cleaning something else on the boat .

Like what?

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by SOLAR SUPPORT

Thank you Fussss for this feedback. Here's another LTO application you might have missed.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...es-273522.html

BjarneK did a great job. I would like to congratulate him. I hope he's following this thread. If you have an existing AGM engine battery, use it. I'm talking about higher performance and longer life, a 40Ah capacity that maintains its functionality in all climatic conditions and is capable of running the diesel engine, windlass, bow thruster, e-winches alone.

I hope he is not watching else he might get the idea we like confusion and misinformation…
Incidentally, the link you sent is the same link not a new one…confusion and misinformation… we can see why this thread is such a disaster.
Congratulate him, really, he goes against all the principals you defend in this current train wreck thread … I think congratulating him is for someone else.

[SOLAR SUPPORT]

Originally Posted by Fuss

I hope he is not watching else he might get the idea we like confusion and misinformation…
Incidentally, the link you sent is the same link not a new one…confusion and misinformation… we can see why this thread is such a disaster.
Congratulate him, really, he goes against all the principals you defend in this current train wreck thread … I think congratulating him is for someone else.

What exactly is the point of confusion about the LTO battery? If you explain this to me properly, I can clear up your confusion. You posted this link in your own answer. I've reposted the link to point to the issue I'm referring to. You're always confused for some reason, Why? I have to congratulate the person who started the topic, because the discussion topic he opened confirms the exact implementation of my thoughts about LTO batteries.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...es-273522.html

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by SOLAR SUPPORT

What exactly is the point of confusion about the LTO battery? If you explain this to me properly, I can clear up your confusion. You posted this link in your own answer. I've reposted the link to point to the issue I'm referring to. You're always confused for some reason, Why? I have to congratulate the person who started the topic, because the discussion topic he opened confirms the exact implementation of my thoughts about LTO batteries.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...es-273522.html

I priced out a 35ah LTO for my starting needs off of your link and it was almost $300 not even including the BMS for LTO batteries.
My FLA start battery is under $70 and i have one that has lasted 10 years as is so even if it's only 5 years the next lasts . I'm still well ahead for the cruising kitty.

[SOLAR SUPPORT]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I priced out a 35ah LTO for my starting needs off of your link and it was almost $300 not even including the BMS for LTO batteries.
My FLA start battery is under $70 and i have one that has lasted 10 years as is so even if it's only 5 years the next lasts . I'm still well ahead for the cruising kitty.

I did not provide the link to the LTO battery product you mentioned. It may not be economical to use LTO batteries just to start the engine. I think it makes sense to continue using FLA - AGM to start the engine in your climate. I do the same. Good luck with your race with cruising kitty.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by SOLAR SUPPORT

I did not provide the link to the LTO battery product you mentioned. It may not be economical to use LTO batteries just to start the engine. I think it makes sense to continue using FLA - AGM to start the engine in your climate. I do the same. Good luck with your race with cruising kitty.

6x18$ =108$ +30Euro for an active balancer is highly economical, also if you have to take into account no bloddy floating and other lead BS anymore. No need for a BMS.
Also no need for a DC2DC Charger, simply parallel to your Lifepo4 houae or take a DC2DC converter if you wanna isolate it.
Another way if you have an AGM regulator on your alternator is (as you don't need to floatl) simply use an argofet and charge it with the alternator in parallel, the Lifepo4 switches off when at 13.8-14.2V but LTO is always there to take the charge like a lead.
you can always parallel with a selector switch to charge if you need to both is lithium and LTO has 85% of capacity between 2-2,4V=12 to14.4V

[SOLAR SUPPORT]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

6x18$ =108$ +30Euro for an active balancer is highly economical, also if you have to take into account no bloddy floating and other lead BS anymore. No need for a BMS.
Also no need for a DC2DC Charger, simply parallel to your Lifepo4 houae or take a DC2DC converter if you wanna isolate it.
Another way if you have an AGM regulator on your alternator is (as you don't need to floatl) simply use an argofet and charge it with the alternator in parallel, the Lifepo4 switches off when at 13.8-14.2V but LTO is always there to take the charge like a lead.
you can always parallel with a selector switch to charge if you need to both is lithium and LTO has 85% of capacity between 2-2,4V=12 to14.4V

C.Rivet, When my LA engine battery runs out, my choice would definitely be to buy an LTO battery, if I can find it at the prices you mentioned. My problem is that the LTO prices offered for sale in my country are much higher. Almost 4-5 times. In my country, Lithium Battery imports can be done at very high costs. I'm sure the LTO battery can do the job of the LA battery much better. LTO battery can do more than the LA-AGM battery for much longer in all climates and abnormal ambient temperatures. Of course, it is also possible to choose one of the options to protect the alternator, such as a smart external regulator or DCDC solution, and use it in parallel or with a battery isolator. In addition, if the windlass and bow thruster energy needs can be met with the same LTO battery, it will be a very economical solution. I hope that some conservative people will not be too confused by these suggestions and we will not be accused of giving false information.

[TwoFish]

YES. Comes down to cranking amps and money. Lead/acid still has a place in this world till the next revelation.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by TwoFish

YES. Comes down to cranking amps and money. Lead/acid still has a place in this world till the next revelation.

For only a very few cases, most not at all.
262Euro for a winston 12V 50AH that lasts 15 years, lead will cost triple for the same time periode and will let you down several times...
Same with LTO...

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

For only a very few cases, most not at all.
262Euro for a winston 12V 50AH that lasts 15 years, lead will cost triple for the same time periode and will let you down several times...
Same with LTO...

$285 USD will buy my start battery 4 times and I expect a full 10 years with each replacement battery.

I must be the weird oddball then I'm going on 10 years on 3 vehicles and 5 on the 4th all test out as still good . Carry jump packs just because

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I must be the weird oddball then I'm going on 10 years on 3 vehicles and 5 on the 4th all test out as still good . Carry jump packs just because

You must be the lead whisperer
Mine died regularly and mostly inconviniently between 5-7years in my cars and they were all pampered with Ctek chargers. 2 AGMs got thermal runaway…could toss them out before burning the car down.
The FLA starter in my cat made it 4 years despite treated with a Victron Phönix 5-Stage charger and the manufacturers recommended parameters like a king.
4x110AH FLA being 1 year old each 130Euro here on the island with 1 week delivery time, boatyard paid as they ****ed them up, wouldn’t have happened with LFP=>if you are sailing around the world you don‘t have the cheap online stores, you have to take what’s locally available and for the price they ask…
Yes if you have a costal weekend sailor with a home port lead is available cheap and 24/7.

Since LTO/winston just a disconnect switch needed, no chargers and replacement since then, same for all my buddies. The Winston in my Audi R8 is in its 8th year (buddy owns it now) and still full rated capacity, the 40AH LTO in the z06 corvette is in its 11th year, with 38AH nearly full capacity too and he is torturing them with a 4000W competition car stereo…no other battery made it more then 6month in his Z06…

The 110AH AGM in the R8 is 150Euro, replacing it another 400 or 4h work as you have to take half of the front appart…the 50AH Winston was 265Euro when I bought it.
How convenient is it to swap batteries on your vessel and how much would a boatyard charge to replace them, that’s not for free either…money or your time…it’s not only the battery cost itself.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

You must be the lead whisperer
Mine died regularly and mostly inconviniently between 5-7years in my cars and they were all pampered with Ctek chargers. 2 AGMs got thermal runaway…could toss them out before burning the car down.
The FLA starter in my cat made it 4 years despite treated with a Victron Phönix 5-Stage charger and the manufacturers recommended parameters like a king.
4x110AH FLA being 1 year old each 130Euro here on the island with 1 week delivery time, boatyard paid as they ****ed them up, wouldn’t have happened with LFP=>if you are sailing around the world you don‘t have the cheap online stores, you have to take what’s locally available and for the price they ask…
Yes if you have a costal weekend sailor with a home port lead is available cheap and 24/7.

Since LTO/winston just a disconnect switch needed, no chargers and replacement since then, same for all my buddies. The Winston in my Audi R8 is in its 8th year (buddy owns it now) and still full rated capacity, the 40AH LTO in the z06 corvette is in its 11th year, with 38AH nearly full capacity too and he is torturing them with a 4000W competition car stereo…no other battery made it more then 6month in his Z06…

The 110AH AGM in the R8 is 150Euro, replacing it another 400 or 4h work as you have to take half of the front appart…the 50AH Winston was 265Euro when I bought it.
How convenient is it to swap batteries on your vessel and how much would a boatyard charge to replace them, that’s not for free either…money or your time…it’s not only the battery cost itself.

I don't take care of them I just use them . For myself there is no boatyard cost. Recall I am a semi retired shipwright so I do all of my own work.
The worst torture you can do to a lead battery is keep it on a charger all the time . Install and forget just use it regularly.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I don't take care of them I just use them . For myself there is no boatyard cost. Recall I am a semi retired shipwright so I do all of my own work.
The worst torture you can do to a lead battery is keep it on a charger all the time . Install and forget just use it regularly.

True, you are the exception that always exists…
Ctek is a battery maintainer and without my batteries lasted less then 3 years…5 cars in parallel and was racing too, so they just stand unused for some time, 6 month in winter…

What does a lead starter 99% of time in a vessel…nothing just sitting around float charged and as dead weight, if not floated they make 3 years max.

That’s why I say we don‘t need them anymore, a lithium house can do much more reliable also the job of the starter and the house at the same time. Want backup use a buffer battery for your nav electronics that additionally protect them, create more stable and clean power and can in emergency start your engine too. You won‘t need if house is installed correctly but you always can.
Both batteries are always in use, so you know they work when needed.