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Old 22-11-2022, 11:25   #1
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Windlass tripping Nav Equipment

Hello everyone,

I have an issue where sometimes, if we work the windlass a bit too hard, the nav instruments all cut out.

I have an 1100ah LifeP04 setup with a REC-BMS. I also have a Victron Battery Protect set for 11.90V.

I'm unsure if the current spike from the windlass is causing the REC-BMS to shutdown, or if the bank is dropping below the 11.90v and the Battery Protect is bringing it down.

Things immediately come back on after a few seconds.

I'm considering moving my windlass off my LifeP04 house bank and onto my Lifeline AGM 4DL rated at 210a @20hr. This AGM is for engine start only and has a Balmar DC-DC charger that keeps it topped up. However, I'd like my Balmar Alternator to help with the load and it currently only goes to the house bank.

Can I simply add my Lifeline AGM to a BlueSea battery combiner switch and turn it to 'combine' when using the windlass? Is there a better solution?

Thanks!
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Old 22-11-2022, 11:42   #2
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Re: Windlass tripping Nav Equipment

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Originally Posted by captNordy View Post
Hello everyone,

I have an issue where sometimes, if we work the windlass a bit too hard, the nav instruments all cut out.

I have an 1100ah LifeP04 setup with a REC-BMS. I also have a Victron Battery Protect set for 11.90V.

I'm unsure if the current spike from the windlass is causing the REC-BMS to shutdown, or if the bank is dropping below the 11.90v and the Battery Protect is bringing it down.

Things immediately come back on after a few seconds.

I'm considering moving my windlass off my LifeP04 house bank and onto my Lifeline AGM 4DL rated at 210a @20hr. This AGM is for engine start only and has a Balmar DC-DC charger that keeps it topped up. However, I'd like my Balmar Alternator to help with the load and it currently only goes to the house bank.

Can I simply add my Lifeline AGM to a BlueSea battery combiner switch and turn it to 'combine' when using the windlass? Is there a better solution?

Thanks!
Something is wrong. Donít try to workaround, find the problem. Start with the battery, put a high load- or a high charge current on it and check voltage drop across every busbar, terminal, jumper, fuse, shunt etc. Use a multimeter as well as a temperature IR laser gun. If thatís all good, do similar testing on the windlass circuit and the instruments circuit.

With 1,100Ah this canít happen under normal circumstances.
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Old 22-11-2022, 12:14   #3
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Re: Windlass tripping Nav Equipment

Thanks for this SV Jedi!

Now that you mention it, if I have all the Nav Equip turned off, when at anchor, but use the windlass without the engine on (maybe to let out a bit more scope before a storm), the VHF radio will turn on.

Would this be a bad ground somewhere? Maybe related...
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Old 22-11-2022, 13:23   #4
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Re: Windlass tripping Nav Equipment

I suspect you have a short or bad ground. Is the radio getting power from same switch that powers your navigation equipment?
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Old 22-11-2022, 13:29   #5
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Re: Windlass tripping Nav Equipment

GreenWave,

Yes, the AIS, ChartPlotter, and VHF are on one breaker. The breaker goes to a BlueSea blade fuse distribution block and each device has its own blade fuse.

Thanks for any help!
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Old 22-11-2022, 18:02   #6
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Re: Windlass tripping Nav Equipment

Definitely agree with SV Jedi here. Something in the common path shared between your windlass and nav instruments has an excessively high resistance. It could be a bad crimp, could be a lug not torqued down properly, could be an undersized wire. Could be corrosion. Torque everything, then start hunting for a comparatively large voltage drop while under high load. If you have an inverter, load it out then look for the connection that is getting warm.
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Old 22-11-2022, 18:57   #7
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Re: Windlass tripping Nav Equipment

The radio turning ON is an interesting symptom.

On the face of it it sounds like the radio pos wire is getting voltage when it should be disconnected Easy enough to check with a voltage meter.

That should never happen, you may have multiple issues.

Jedi's suggestions are good. If they do not cure the problem check the wiring to the windlass.

1 I would suspect a high resistance in my windlass return circuit.

2 I would also check the radio antenna. If your boat has a totally floating ground it is possible the antenna is making an unintentional ground.

This may be a tricky problem to run down.
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Old 24-11-2022, 00:54   #8
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Re: Windlass tripping Nav Equipment

when the battery protect cuts out it takes about 20 secs before it turns back on after the voltage goes back up. and you'd see that it's turned off with a low voltage alarm in the victron app. (if you have the smart protect)

since it sounds like both the windlass and house loads are comming from the same bus (after the BP) it's also possbile the drop is in the wiring etc and not the batteries themselfs.

why is the windlass through the BP? is it being used as a BMS relay or just as a BP? since its' only on for a couple mins and only when you are in control. I wouldn't be worried about it draining the battery. unlike say or fridge or something that will drain as you sleep.
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Old 24-11-2022, 06:24   #9
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Re: Windlass tripping Nav Equipment

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Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
Since it sounds like both the windlass and house loads are coming from the same bus (after the BP) it's also possible the drop is in the wiring etc and not the batteries themselve's.
My thoughts too. Wiring to the electronics is too small. A temporary piggy backed pos and neg wires may eliminate the problem. We have had a similar problem as more electronics have been added over the years. New heavier wiring solved the problem completely by removing the voltage drop.

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Old 24-11-2022, 06:39   #10
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Windlass tripping Nav Equipment

The windlass motor will draw huge current as it spools up, even with light loads. The BMS may be faster in response time than the motor. Tool of choice here is a Fluke scopemeter to see V vs time at spoolup. Increasing wire size to the windlass could actually make this problem worse. You are dealing with competing time constants here.
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Old 26-11-2022, 13:28   #11
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Re: Windlass tripping Nav Equipment

Thanks everyone, lots for me to chase down starting next week!
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Old 26-11-2022, 21:50   #12
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Re: Windlass tripping Nav Equipment

The battery protect which is mosfets based are not ideal/suitable for windlass use as the start up surge is multiple times the continuous current plus when stopping the windlass the reverse current introduced is known to fry mosfets…
That’s why maybe the bp shuts down and switches of nav equipment would be my first tip.
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Old 27-11-2022, 00:57   #13
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Re: Windlass tripping Nav Equipment

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Originally Posted by CaptainRivet View Post
The battery protect which is mosfets based are not ideal/suitable for windlass use as the start up surge is multiple times the continuous current plus when stopping the windlass the reverse current introduced is known to fry mosfetsÖ
Thatís why maybe the bp shuts down and switches of nav equipment would be my first tip.


Mosfets fail open so would not be a factor here.
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Old 27-11-2022, 04:46   #14
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Re: Windlass tripping Nav Equipment

I’m not an electrical expert however pretty common thing in a semi truck , when you hit the starter , you may have even noticed it in your car when you hit the starter everything dies and some cars are designed that way , load on the starter would play havoc with everything in the truck , do you want to solve the problem get separate Windless batteries , on a separate circuit end of problem
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Old 28-11-2022, 19:51   #15
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Re: Windlass tripping Nav Equipment

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Mosfets fail open so would not be a factor here.

But your Battery protect is still dead then...well and strangwise BP if they do they are known for failing mostly closed
And BP are also known for dying "partly" if connected to big inverters or motors and then having a strange behaviour...
Anchor winch I highly recommend to use a normal relay, never a BP.


If you use BP to shut off your legacy house power cable (without the anchor whinch and big inverter) I suggest to massivly oversize them...having 60A max and using a BP220 means 220A so even the surge of my 12V/600W watermaker high pressure pump won't cause a problem.

Multiplus is managed directly by BMS to switch on/off via remote function.
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