Tesla Lithium battery question.

[nebster]

I live in my RV and have a lithium iron phosphate pack.

With a child and a pet on board, and sometimes with one or both left unattended, I could not get comfortable with the risk-reward on NCA cells versus LFP.

We might have ended up using Tesla modules if it were just my wife and me, but it would be close.

There is no way I would install a lithium-cobalt chemistry in a water sailing">blue water sailing boat today. After another terawatt-hour of charge/discharge in EVs, and with a stellar observed track record... maybe.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by duckpond49

If you want a glimpse at what the Sailing Gods are up to check this out.
Technology | Daedalus Yachts
These folks are currently building a 78' Zero Emissions "foiling" cruising catamaran.
"Hydrogen is generated onboard and the energy is stored in BMW lithium battery banks."

It looks like whomever did their website just strung a bunch of technical words together to make techno-babble gobbledygook. I have no opinion about the actual product being flogged there.

The quote above is an example. Hydrogen has potential energy but it is generally not considered to be energy itself which is the way the sentence is constructed. Hydrogen is stored in tanks, not batteries. Electrical energy is stored in battery banks.

The website has a lot of stuff like that.

[john61ct]

Sailing Gods, what malarkey.

I have yet to see a sailor making a YouTube living with any level of technical knowledge.

They publicize stuff without fully understanding it.

[duckpond49]

"Sailing Gods, what malarkey.
I have yet to see a sailor making a YouTube living with any level of technical knowledge.
They publicize stuff without fully understanding it."

I admit my characterization of "Sailing Gods" was a bit flip but the "sailor making YouTube living" reference is way off the mark.

The site I linked to is a new project by former high-end catamaran builder Gunboat and Google billionaire Stefan Muff. The website unarguably leans towards hype, but but the project is real and well underway.

". . . former Gunboat employees, including the designer Rudo Enserink, who designed the G4 and Doug Schickler, in charge of the hydrodynamics, using an innovative fluid management computer system. Electric motor / generators, carbon wind generators, a coachroof completely covered with solar panels, sails and covers completely covered with photovoltaic films, production and storage of hydrogen derived from techniques used on nuclear submarines . . ."

I would think boat owners exploring Li Ion batts would find it interesting.

[a64pilot]

Ever since the 1970’s when it was used very effectively in internal combustion engines with nearly zero emissions, I have believed Hydrogen to be the future, I still do, but think it will be in the form of fuel cells.
However hydrogen is an energy storage medium, a lot like batteries, just with a whole lot higher energy density, and from an automotive perspective solves a lot of the electric car issues. Like range.

To make electricity, to make hydrogen, to make electricity and store it in batteries. How is that logical?
Or do they have another way of making hydrogen other than electrolysis?

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Ever since the 1970’s when it was used very effectively in internal combustion engines with nearly zero emissions, I have believed Hydrogen to be the future, I still do, but think it will be in the form of fuel cells.
However hydrogen is an energy storage medium, a lot like batteries, just with a whole lot higher energy density, and from an automotive perspective solves a lot of the electric car issues. Like range.

To make electricity, to make hydrogen, to make electricity and store it in batteries. How is that logical?
Or do they have another way of making hydrogen other than electrolysis?

I think you would find this video interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7MzFfuNOtY

I used to be in the hydrogen camp, but the issues discussed in this video have swayed me. He doesn't even discuss all the issues with hydrogen, just the biggest ones. Its all about the losses!

I think hydrogen will definately have a future in aviation, but I'm betting my money it will never be a major player in land/sea travel.

[steveinusa]

Why so many condescending remarks about a legitimate question? The guy just asked if anyone used Tesla batteries. if you have, how did it go, and if you didn't, the question obviously isn't for you.

[john61ct]

If someone asks

"So any of you guys use a Mr Buddy heater to heat your cabin living aboard in arctic conditions?"

Responding as you suggest would be irresponsible, both to the OP, and to other readers now and in the future.

It's a public forum, let the mods do the policing of how people should post.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by travellerw

I think you would find this video interesting.

I used to be in the hydrogen camp, but the issues discussed in this video have swayed me. He doesn't even discuss all the issues with hydrogen, just the biggest ones. Its all about the losses!



I think hydrogen will definately have a future in aviation, but I'm betting my money it will never be a major player in land/sea travel.

I’m still in the H2 camp, cause I think there is more to it than the video brings up.

However you cannot apply logic to anything automotive, Average Tesla driver probably has as their other car either a V8 large SUV or Pickup truck.
Due to the weight difference, an H2 vehicle could be made much, much lighter, and therefore way more efficient, but as I’ve already stated, logic and the average consumer just don’t go together at all.

When the big auto manufacturers get into the EV game, I’m expecting to see big SUV’s, I’m betting Ford will be first.

[a64pilot]

The Tesla automobiles have proven over time to have 1/10 the fire likelihood of a gasoline fueled vehicle, so the batteries seem to be pretty safe from fire danger.
Not that I would use them myself, cause even though it’s low, it exists

[john61ct]

I'd have absolutely no qualms about putting me and my loved ones in a Tesla.

But taking the battery packs out and using them away from the integrated BMS, safety systems and thermal management engineering?

Let others be the pioneers on that, check back once there are ABYC approved setups.

[a64pilot]

Are there any LFP “ABYC approved” set ups?

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Due to the weight difference, an H2 vehicle could be made much, much lighter

Not exactly good for safety when all the other masses of twisted angry metal and glass hurtling at highway speeds are so murderously large

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Not exactly good for safety when all the other masses of twisted angry metal and glass hurtling at highway speeds are so murderously large

Hence the myth of I feel safer in my SUV.
However nothing could be further from the truth, mass does not ensure safety, it merely increases inertia is all, which of course translates into less road holding and increased stopping distances.
A properly designed “sports car” is way safer than an SUV, cause it will stop in much less distance and won’t run off of the road as easily.

The SUV myth is actually based on the idea of I’ll crush the other guy with my mass, but I’ll be OK myself.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Are there any LFP “ABYC approved” set ups?

When they come out with their specs there will be lots, and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the ones installed by the likes of Maine Sail and OceanPlanet will be.

I'm told they will not be limited to BMS-integrated commercial systems only, so likely the protective requirements will be defined functionally.

I'd be very surprised if salvaged EV or homemade cylindrical packs would ever pass though.

There's proper marine DIY engineering, and then there's hobbyists hacking around, with a huge gap between the two IMO.