Tesla Lithium battery question.

[john61ct]

And the safety issues are "solved" (i.e. mitigated AMAP) by the complex thermal management and other safety gear, it all is designed to work as an integrated system.

So just pulling the high-voltage packs out of there, thinking you can reverse engineer everything to run as a House bank. . .

Hubris.

Yes maybe one day there will be a way, but not anytime soon.

[a64pilot]

No, they are Panasonic 18650 Cell’s.
Specifically these that I use in my Cave diving back up light.

There is nothing wrong with that, just realize that Tesla didn’t “invent”a new form of battery or any of the other things their fans like to say and think.

[a64pilot]

I’ve not read this yet, just Googled it
http://blog.evandmore.com/lets-talk-...nic-ncr18650b/

[GrowleyMonster]

I think a well built pack of 18650 cells would be fine for a dinghy. Light, portable, high energy density, high max charge/discharge rates. At this stage of the technology I would not put them in a boat that will be voyaging farther than swimming distance from land, though. They are too reliant of the BMS which of course like all things electronic or electrical, can fail, sometimes for no particular reason, and in spectacular fashion. In time the safety issues will probably be addressed but as of right now they have not been addressed to my own satisfaction yet. If I had the bucks, I might well consider a series bank of large Winston LiFePO4 prismatics, but not LiIon, I don't think. Anyone who does, well, perhaps the pros outweigh the cons, for them.



You can pull off the road and bail out of a burning car, usually. From a boat that sometimes is a problem. I would happily drive a 18650 powered car. Hesitate, or likely refuse, a boat.

[DeepFrz]

18650 only refers to the size of the case. It does not indicate the internal chemistry of the cell. 18 mm x 65 mm with an extra zero for some reason.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

No, they are Panasonic 18650 Cell’s.
Specifically these that I use in my Cave diving back up light.Attachment 176715

There is nothing wrong with that, just realize that Tesla didn’t “invent”a new form of battery or any of the other things their fans like to say and think.

[a64pilot]

Yeah, OK.
NCR18650B , mh12210 is a Panasonic part number, and it’s what is in Tesla automobiles.
Unless you want to believe that Panasonic manufacturers a special battery for Tesla that has the same part number and identical markings as they ones they sell you and I.

I know Tesla has a lot of fans who think Elon Musk is going to save the world etc. and I’m not knocking him, anyone that can milk the Federal Government like he has is an artist.
Just don’t please assign any kind of special status to Tesla, cause there isn’t any.
Except for it as a status symbol, it will soon be eclipsed by other electric cars, that don’t use flashlight batteries

Cars that the common person that has been subsidizing Tesla, can afford.

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

18650 only refers to the size of the case. It does not indicate the internal chemistry of the cell. 18 mm x 65 mm with an extra zero for some reason.

Yes exactly.. They make 18650 cells in all kinds of chemistry. For Tesla the cells are the nickel-cobalt-aluminium variety (which is actually different than other EV manufacturers).

However, they manufacture 18650 cells in LiFePO4 chemistry. I beleive both Battleborn and Valence use cylindrical18650 LiFePO4 cells (regardless of the marketing wank saying "nano phosphate").

[DeepFrz]

Note: I posted this before I saw travellerw's comment.

Actually Tesla is going to 21700 cells which pack up to 30% more power. Tesla cells are built in the Gigafactory. I know that Panasonic has facilities in the Gigafactory so yes, I believe that the Tesla cells could be a proprietary design. I don't know for sure that they are proprietary, just that they could well be.

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes not safe away from its thermal safety systems and central controls.

Backyard shed science project, not for a boat.

You keep repeating this, but it is not an important factor after all.

It would be so easy to safely install Li-ion batteries simply by distributing the cells throughout the boat or in a way with sufficient distance between them to prevent thermal runaway.

[a64pilot]

Is going is the operative word there.
They are more powerful, because they are physically bigger. A bigger flashlight battery

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Is going is the operative word there.
They are more powerful, because they are physically bigger. A bigger flashlight battery

They started manufacturing them in 2017. My fault for not checking the date on the article.

Further clarification. 18650 cells are being manufactured away from the Gigafactory while the 21700 cells are manufactured in the Gigafactory. The newer 21700 cells are used in the Model 3.

[a64pilot]

I think the new batteries will also be used in the powerwall as well.

I don’t expect Tesla to “make” it, I don’t really know anything about the company or its stock or anything else, just think that GM, Toyota, Mercedes, whoever will squash them and make much better products.

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Note: I posted this before I saw travellerw's comment.

Actually Tesla is going to 21700 cells which pack up to 30% more power. Tesla cells are built in the Gigafactory. I know that Panasonic has facilities in the Gigafactory so yes, I believe that the Tesla cells could be a proprietary design. I don't know for sure that they are proprietary, just that they could well be.

Actually here is an interesting article on the chemisty and particularily cobalt.

Panasonic reduces Tesla’s cobalt consumption by 60% in 6 years ... | Benchmark Minerals

Yes, the Tesla batteries are actually a different chemisty. Of course they are also available on the open market. Panasonic actually makes cells with both technology though.

So, if you cut open say a laptop battery, it will probably have NCM technology cells in it and not the Tesla/Panasonic NCA technology.

[DeepFrz]

Apparently, and I certainly can't confirm this, the Tesla battery packs only need cooling if used to supply over 250 amps. Under 250 amp draw and they will, apparently, not overheat.

Originally Posted by john61ct

And the safety issues are "solved" (i.e. mitigated AMAP) by the complex thermal management and other safety gear, it all is designed to work as an integrated system.

So just pulling the high-voltage packs out of there, thinking you can reverse engineer everything to run as a House bank. . .

Hubris.

Yes maybe one day there will be a way, but not anytime soon.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Apparently, and I certainly can't confirm this, the Tesla battery packs only need cooling if used to supply over 250 amps. Under 250 amp draw and they will, apparently, not overheat.

I think that is common for all traction battery banks, I know it is for Prius, you can if you listen for it, hear the fan kick in, although I think interior temp of the car also has a lot to do with it, I bet in Phoenix in August, the fan comes on with the car booting up.