Merged LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

[CatNewBee]

Just saw there are successfull integrations using serial port / RS485 on Daly BMS and compatibles and there is a driver for the 123Smart BMS too in the downloader for the GUI Mods.


https://github.com/Louisvdw/dbus-serialbattery
https://github.com/Louisvdw/dbus-serialbattery/wiki

LLT Power BMS
Jiabaida JBD BMS
Overkill Solar BMS
Smart Daly BMS
Sinowealth based Daly BMS
ANT BMS
JKBMS BMS

in the code are also BLE driver and Renogy, not sure about that.
As far as I understood, they enable the Cerbo / Venus to control the Victron charge sources using DVCC based on the data gathered from this BMS, so basically similar integration level like the Victron Ve.CAN BMS range and 3rd parties like the REC BMS / ABMS

Interesting for all the (cheap) DIY LiFeYPO4 / LiFePO4 battery builds.

You may join the FB group on VenusOS modifications if you are interested in other activities beyond Victron's standard CERBO setup.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/5243...257/?ref=share

[BetterDays 2020]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Integration / changes to the factory setup.

The LFP cells were fitted in the empty battery compartment under the port aft berth, slightly modified because the LFP cells are higher, all the control installation was fitted above the battery below the drawer, it includes the solenoids, new 500A circuit breaker for the house and 2x400A for the Quattro, 150A for the MPPT etc. Also solid copper bus bars for the connections between the cells, to the breakers and to the 1000A shunt, the quattro was fitted behind the battery above the A/C unit, that will be almost not used. The MPPT controller is left of the battery replacing the MasterShunt.

I have been searching for a 500 amp Marine Rated Circuit Breaker, and can't find one. Who makes them and where can I find one?

Thanks,

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by BetterDays 2020

I have been searching for a 500 amp Marine Rated Circuit Breaker, and can't find one. Who makes them and where can I find one?

Thanks,

For these amps and the potential short circuit amperage of a LFP bank a breaker is a noGo as they tend to melt close means in emergency case you have no interrupt of the power.

The way to go are NH3 fuse:
https://www.transnet.co.nz/shop/Circ...%28NH3%29.html
The fuse can be pulled under load with a puller tool which is 15Euro,so it also acts as switch. This saves you also additional connection points=resistance=voltage drop and points of failures because its a fuse and a switch at the same time. Contacts surface is massive silver plated cooper and the huge ceramic body acts as a heat sink and doesn't tranfer all the heat on the busbars or cables and cause heat issues.

Short curcuit rating of NH3 is AC 120KvA and relevant DC is 50kvA=50000A.
Eg my LFP bank consist of 12 Lishen cells with 272Ah,so a 3p4S 840AH bank that has/can deliver a short curcuit of max 35000A if nothing before acts as a fuse... No breaker will be able to handle that and melt close.
A LFP has typically 8-20milli ohm resistance which is basically a short curcuit and not limiting she amps so something else will melt/catch fire before that amps are reached. This compared to a AGM, Gel or lead which has megaohms resistance and therefore limiting the amps in a short to approx 3 times its CCA means a typical 400AH lead bank has 850CCA so short curcuit in max is 2500A, LFP will do 30x=25000A

If you are US based you can alternativly can use class T fuse. But they have 2 major disadvantages. 1. They cannot be used as a switch so you need an expensive main 500A switch and add contact points and therefor additional resistance=voltage drop and point of failures.
2)they are super fast acting fuse type means you cannot put big motors or other loads that create big surges and amp spikes as this will blow the class T fuse. NH fuse are slow in overload =allow high surge or short-term high amp loads but act fast in a short curcuit.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

For these amps and the potential short circuit amperage of a LFP bank a breaker is a noGo as they tend to melt close means in emergency case you have no interrupt of the power.

The way to go are NH3 fuse:
https://www.transnet.co.nz/shop/Circ...%28NH3%29.html
The fuse can be pulled under load with a puller tool which is 15Euro,so it also acts as switch. This saves you also additional connection points=resistance=voltage drop and points of failures because its a fuse and a switch at the same time. Contacts surface is massive silver plated cooper and the huge ceramic body acts as a heat sink and doesn't tranfer all the heat on the busbars or cables and cause heat issues.

Short curcuit rating of NH3 is AC 120KvA and relevant DC is 50kvA=50000A.
Eg my LFP bank consist of 12 Lishen cells with 272Ah,so a 3p4S 840AH bank that has/can deliver a short curcuit of max 35000A if nothing before acts as a fuse... No breaker will be able to handle that and melt close.
A LFP has typically 8-20milli ohm resistance which is basically a short curcuit and not limiting she amps so something else will melt/catch fire before that amps are reached. This compared to a AGM, Gel or lead which has megaohms resistance and therefore limiting the amps in a short to approx 3 times its CCA means a typical 400AH lead bank has 850CCA so short curcuit in max is 2500A, LFP will do 30x=25000A

If you are US based you can alternativly can use class T fuse. But they have 2 major disadvantages. 1. They cannot be used as a switch so you need an expensive main 500A switch and add contact points and therefor additional resistance=voltage drop and point of failures.
2)they are super fast acting fuse type means you cannot put big motors or other loads that create big surges and amp spikes as this will blow the class T fuse. NH fuse are slow in overload =allow high surge or short-term high amp loads but act fast in a short curcuit.

I believe that is an AC rated fuse, not for DC? Max. Interrupt rating is in A or kA.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

The way to go are NH3 fuse:

If you are considering these, keep in mind they are very large (around 6 inches long for the fuse itself), also the fuse holder is spring loaded rather than utilising a retaining bolt (or at least that was the case on the boat I witnessed using this type of fuse).

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by BetterDays 2020

I have been searching for a 500 amp Marine Rated Circuit Breaker, and can't find one. Who makes them and where can I find one?

Thanks,

I found this on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/big-500-AMP...edirect=mobile
It's a good place to start .

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I found this on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/big-500-AMP...edirect=mobile
It's a good place to start .

These inexpensive “no name” circuit breakers make me nervous.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

For these amps and the potential short circuit amperage of a LFP bank a breaker is a noGo as they tend to melt close means in emergency case you have no interrupt of the power.

The way to go are NH3 fuse:
https://www.transnet.co.nz/shop/Circ...%28NH3%29.html
The fuse can be pulled under load with a puller tool which is 15Euro,so it also acts as switch. This saves you also additional connection points=resistance=voltage drop and points of failures because its a fuse and a switch at the same time. Contacts surface is massive silver plated cooper and the huge ceramic body acts as a heat sink and doesn't tranfer all the heat on the busbars or cables and cause heat issues.

Short curcuit rating of NH3 is AC 120KvA and relevant DC is 50kvA=50000A.
Eg my LFP bank consist of 12 Lishen cells with 272Ah,so a 3p4S 840AH bank that has/can deliver a short curcuit of max 35000A if nothing before acts as a fuse... No breaker will be able to handle that and melt close.
A LFP has typically 8-20milli ohm resistance which is basically a short curcuit and not limiting she amps so something else will melt/catch fire before that amps are reached. This compared to a AGM, Gel or lead which has megaohms resistance and therefore limiting the amps in a short to approx 3 times its CCA means a typical 400AH lead bank has 850CCA so short curcuit in max is 2500A, LFP will do 30x=25000A

If you are US based you can alternativly can use class T fuse. But they have 2 major disadvantages. 1. They cannot be used as a switch so you need an expensive main 500A switch and add contact points and therefor additional resistance=voltage drop and point of failures.
2)they are super fast acting fuse type means you cannot put big motors or other loads that create big surges and amp spikes as this will blow the class T fuse. NH fuse are slow in overload =allow high surge or short-term high amp loads but act fast in a short curcuit.

Your boat your choice .
My boat its this .
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Circuit-Bre...edirect=mobile

As I have just a 250ah bank and my inverter is a trace 2512 inverter charger with a 120 amp charger .

My insurance inspector is happy . I'm happy

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

These inexpensive “no name” circuit breakers make me nervous.

Not no name . Get wired is the brand and they are used extensively in car audio systems . But the exact reason I posted was to show another avenue to search to find what you need . Doesn't always say boat in the description.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I believe that is an AC rated fuse, not for DC? Max. Interrupt rating is in A or kA.

Wrong AC and DC fuse and Beneteau uses them in all of their new boats from factory.

A fuse has 4 ratings that are important:
Voltage: NH3 up to 690V, better to use the 400V ones as less resistance=less voltage drop
Interrupt current rating: NH3 available in 315 till 690A amps
Acting typ: NH gG or gH is slow acting in overload and fast acting in short curcuit, perfect to protect a LFP as main battery fuse or protect thick wires.
Max interrupt current or interrupt rating (means up to which current the fuse or breaker is able to keep its interrupt function) : NH1-3 120kA AC or 50kA DC
NH fuses are also widely used in public grid eg transformator stations and therefore regularly controlled and certified means you can really trust their spec plus they are cheap.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I believe that is an AC rated fuse, not for DC? Max. Interrupt rating is in A or kA.

Originally Posted by noelex 77

If you are considering these, keep in mind they are very large (around 6 inches long for the fuse itself), also the fuse holder is spring loaded rather than utilising a retaining bolt (or at least that was the case on the boat I witnessed using this type of fuse).

I know, my whole new lithium install every fuse from 63A on are NH fuses. My main battery fuse is a NH3 400V type 500A, resistance is only 53W at 500A real continuous (nothing heats up, means for hours) I am pulling up to 6kw in 230V in 12V from my 2 inverters so i need a beefy and safe installation.
500A is a serious and dangerous high current and you need beefy busbars, connectors, fuses and that every connection has as less voltage drop as possible.
One mistake, one bad connection with 500A continuous and that creates enormous heat which will most likely will cause a fire or big melting damage. And that high current stuff cost money as you need chunky cooper connectors that can handle 500A.
As stated above the NH fuses are used in public grid and therefore certified and quality controlled, so you can 100% trust their ratings.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

I know, my whole new lithium install every fuse from 63A on are NH fuses. My main battery fuse is a NH3 400V type 500A, resistance is only 53W at 500A real continuous (nothing heats up, means for hours) I am pulling up to 6kw in 230V in 12V from my 2 inverters so i need a beefy and safe installation.
500A is a serious and dangerous high current and you need beefy busbars, connectors, fuses and that every connection has as less voltage drop as possible.
One mistake, one bad connection with 500A continuous and that creates enormous heat which will most likely will cause a fire or big melting damage. And that high current stuff cost money as you need chunky cooper connectors that can handle 500A.
As stated above the NH fuses are used in public grid and therefore certified and quality controlled, so you can 100% trust their ratings.

With that kind of consistent draw why are you running 12vdc move up to 24v would be a lot safer to operate

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Your boat your choice .
My boat its this .
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Circuit-Bre...edirect=mobile

As I have just a 250ah bank and my inverter is a trace 2512 inverter charger with a 120 amp charger .

My insurance inspector is happy . I'm happy

The fuse you linked has an interrupt rating of only 3000A but your 250AH LFP bank has a dead short capability of 15000A till 25000A (depends on thi internal reistance of your cells typically somewhere between 8 and 20 milliohm) means if LFP gets shortend your 250A breaker will melt close and won't interrupt any more.
And your insurance surveyor has clearly no idea what he/she is inspecting here. If US have a look at the small print of the report as US surveyor have the ability to completely exclude all liability for their reports and work. Means if your boat burns down and during damage inspection the reason is a melted closed breaker that has an insufficient interrup rating (clearly and without any doubt the case and this will be in 99,9% also the reason) you are screwed and coverage refused....and his report you can use as toilet paper...
Also suggest to measure the voltage drop on this breakers when you pulling max amps... I bet it will be huge.
And the real car hifi freaks won't use these crappy breakers... I was in that scene for 20years and made democars for some of their manufacturers of car audio equipment. And my experience with these breakers is that from 150A on they really have half of their rating in reality.
They are good till 80A, mainly because you can use them as interrupt switch too which gets frequently used, i use one of them in 60A for the watermaker.

[LeighC]

Hi All,
I have bought one of these https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/384692313682 Have not connected it yet but looks & feels very sturdy, not marine listed though. Manual switch off very strong to switch off. Fairly large though.
Rated at 250A DC, connecting to Victron Easy Solar 48v/ 5000VA. for 28KW LiFePo4 off grid house system
Will report on how it goes as soon as system is commissioned.
Cheers - Leigh

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Your boat your choice .
My boat its this .
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Circuit-Bre...edirect=mobile

As I have just a 250ah bank and my inverter is a trace 2512 inverter charger with a 120 amp charger .

My insurance inspector is happy . I'm happy

Originally Posted by newhaul

With that kind of consistent draw why are you running 12vdc move up to 24v would be a lot safer to operate

With the right gear and knowledge it doesn't matter if 200A or 500A, both will have the same result if you screw up during install...
The advantage with 500A is mistakes and wrong rated stuff will quickly appear during a 500A stress test while with 250A not so... My personal experience. Additionally a lot stuff is wrongly rated in 200-300A area but with 500A its not because its clearly visible it can't handle it and they don't try that as who deals with 500A is normally experienced and discovers that immediately.
I have all high current drawing stuff within 60cm cable length of the LFP bank, so no big voltage drops and massive cables but all 12V is new or newly overhauled (windlass, new engines with new 12V alternators, one of 2 12V/3500w inverter...) when i bought the cat 1 year ago.
So its cheaper (upgrading to 24V would have been 4000Euro material+labour without any real advantage in my case) and less complex.
Additional i have 12 cells Lishen 272AH, so a 24V bank not really possible nor needed.
I normally run around 250A consistent ant thats when cooking dinner but i it will go seldomly to 500A when all burners of the 3 burner induction hob and the converter oven is running in parallel because the admiral is cooking a big dinner for guest... Well what you have you will use so I speced everything for that and a bit more... My install can do 700A continuous��
Just need to exchange the 500A NH3 fuse with the 690A one which I already have on board.