Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-09-2021, 06:59   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 35
Lithium and Insurance

Hi all,
I am considering switching to lithium, and recently heard that insurance companies are leery about insuring boats with LiFePO4 (or any other Li batteries). I asked my agent (IMIS, policy is Jackline, a Market product), and they replied that the underwriter has a list of requirements that must be met for your policy to be accepted. They require that a certified marine electrician do the install, a BMS manufactured by a US company, and only for "lower value" boats (which leaves my boat uninsurable).

I am looking for other options and will report what I find.

Has anyone else run into this? Did you find an insurer willing to cover boats with LiFePO4 batteries?

Thanks for any input.
Kent
karkauai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2021, 22:52   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia Mannum South Australia
Posts: 525
Re: Lithium and Insurance

This is an interesting topic all on its own. The same question has come up over here in Aust with RV conversions to lithium.
It seems that those doing DIY drop in lithium conversions could be leaving themselves open to a claim denial in the case of a battery/electrical fire.
In our case, we are lithium system installers and therefore our insurance covers our systems .... unless someone other than us modify the system, then they are on their own to fight it out as far as just who is responsible.
Yet to find a drop in battery manufacturer or reseller who will carry the insurance can if their battery causes damage to any equipment, including the vehicle or vessel it has been installed in .... all their limitations seem to be about the actual battery purchase price .....

T1 Terry
T1 Terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2021, 11:28   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 35
Re: Lithium and Insurance

Hi Terry,
What do you mean by " all their limitations seem to be about the actual battery purchase price ....."?

They insist on more expensive batteries? If so, does higher price imply that the battery manufacturer has insurance?

I am NOT an electrician, and wouldn't consider a DIY install. So far I haven't been too impressed with the few electricians I've asked about Li. My boat is an Amel, with a *floating" ground, bonding system not attached to battery negative except when glow plugs, starting, or stopping either the Yanmar, or Onan generator. Most ABYC electricians don't seem to understand that, so asking about Li is a moot point.

As an installer, can you give us a list of the most important things to insist on? From batteries to chargers to controllers to BMSs?
Thanks
Kent
karkauai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2021, 11:33   #4
Registered User
 
rwidman's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Charleston, SC
Boat: Camano Troll
Posts: 5,020
Re: Lithium and Insurance

If insurance companies won't insure a boat with lithium batteries, I would take that as a good reason not to install lithium batteries in my boat. These companies know the risks, that is their business.

It makes me wonder tough, is the lithium battery for my electric dinghy motor a risk? Do I need to keep it outside or in a fireproof enclosure?
__________________
Ron
HIGH COTTON
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2021, 11:55   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 35
Re: Lithium and Insurance

Hi Rwidman,
I had a Torqueedo for a season and gave it up. I used the boat's solar to charge the batteries, checking battery temp every hour or so. They never even got warm.
Kent
karkauai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2021, 12:11   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: East Coast USA
Boat: Boatless at the moment
Posts: 834
Re: Lithium and Insurance

The Markel issue seems to be not lithium iron batteries per se but rather the installation by DYIs.
kenbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2021, 12:28   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 35
Re: Lithium and Insurance

That's probably true. I hope Over the last three years, I've replaced chargers 24v house bank alternator and external controller, and added solar with controllers, all of which are Li compatible.
But Markel won't cover LiFePO4 systems on boats that are of "higher value" even if professionally installed...that leaves me out with my 53ft 1999 Amel ketch.
karkauai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2021, 00:32   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia Mannum South Australia
Posts: 525
Re: Lithium and Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by karkauai View Post
Hi Terry,
What do you mean by " all their limitations seem to be about the actual battery purchase price ....."?

They insist on more expensive batteries? If so, does higher price imply that the battery manufacturer has insurance?

I am NOT an electrician, and wouldn't consider a DIY install. So far I haven't been too impressed with the few electricians I've asked about Li. My boat is an Amel, with a *floating" ground, bonding system not attached to battery negative except when glow plugs, starting, or stopping either the Yanmar, or Onan generator. Most ABYC electricians don't seem to understand that, so asking about Li is a moot point.

As an installer, can you give us a list of the most important things to insist on? From batteries to chargers to controllers to BMSs?
Thanks
Kent
The supplier of the drop in battery will not pay for any subsequent damage one of their batteries might cause.
Basically, the installer of the lithium system should cover the insurance if anything should go wrong causing damage ... it's called product liability

T1 Terry
T1 Terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2021, 01:24   #9
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 3,641
Re: Lithium and Insurance

There is a difference between lithium , lithium ion and lifepo4

Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2021, 02:40   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 35
Re: Lithium and Insurance

I understand liability, Terry. I don't understand your statement that " all their limitations seem to be about the actual battery purchase price ....."?

The limitations they cited were
1) Only boats of "lesser value", and said my boat doesn't qualify. Another boat owner told me that Markel told him they were only considering boats worth $150,000 or less
2)USA battery manufacturer
3)USA ABYC certified installer

They won't even consider DIY installs, so what did you mean by " all their limitations seem to be about the actual battery purchase price ....."?
Thanks
Kent
karkauai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2021, 23:45   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia Mannum South Australia
Posts: 525
Re: Lithium and Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by karkauai View Post
I understand liability, Terry. I don't understand your statement that " all their limitations seem to be about the actual battery purchase price ....."?

The limitations they cited were
1) Only boats of "lesser value", and said my boat doesn't qualify. Another boat owner told me that Markel told him they were only considering boats worth $150,000 or less
2)USA battery manufacturer
3)USA ABYC certified installer

They won't even consider DIY installs, so what did you mean by " all their limitations seem to be about the actual battery purchase price ....."?
Thanks
Kent
That comment was in reference to the DIY builder who might think any costs resulting from a faulty battery would be met by the battery supplier.
When a DIY installer uses drop in batteries, the battery supplier will only cover the cost of the battery, not subsequent damage or costs that might have been involved if their battery failed.
As to whether the insurance policy for the vessel in the event of a fire would be covered by the insurer if they could link the fire back to any DIY electrical work ...... you don't need me to paint the picture of how that would go :lol:

T1 Terry
T1 Terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-09-2021, 16:37   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 35
Re: Lithium and Insurance

Gotcha. Thanks for clarification.
karkauai is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
insurance, lithium

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Canadian Life insurance and health insurance tmoandj General Sailing Forum 25 06-09-2021 08:29
Replacing 1 House and 1 Starter with 2 House and a Lithium Ion Starter and4ew Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 2 31-07-2021 20:08
Lithium Portable Lithium Battery Pack Charging zboss Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 2 01-05-2020 10:33
Lithium Ion Breakthrough - forgetful-scientists-accidentally-quadruple-lithium-ion-ba zboss Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 8 22-08-2015 23:35
Able Maritime Yacht Insurance and Sunderland Marine Insurance Arcticsailor Dollars & Cents 0 17-03-2014 09:56

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:01.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.