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Old 07-08-2021, 17:25   #46
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Re: Lightning strikes or EMP taking out lithium bank

NDBís for aircraft are still hanging around. Lots of low freq beacons dedicated for marine use are long gone. If DF using low freqs, best to get a unit that does am broadcast too.
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Old 08-08-2021, 03:24   #47
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Re: Lightning strikes or EMP taking out lithium bank

Apologies for thread drift....

Marine rdf systems were turned off worldwide in the 80's, as far as I know. Then loran. But oddly enough, the loran stations still exist and could be turned back on quite easily. You have to ask yourself, why? GPS is not the great solution they want you to think.

The aero omni beacons will keep going for many years,as it is fitted to a great many private aircraft.

If you know where you are going to, you can find the lat/long of domestic radio transmitters and keep a list. The omni stations are on a worldwide list.

Or navigate the way the captains did, before accurate time pieces.

'Run down the latitude' as they used to call it, turn east or west and you're there.
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Old 08-08-2021, 09:53   #48
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Re: Lightning strikes or EMP taking out lithium bank

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Originally Posted by omsray View Post
I was involved in refitting a 52' boat about 8 Years ago, where we installed 3 sets of Lifepo4 Battery's. 12V, 24V & 48V. About a year after the refit was finished the boat took a direct hit by Lightning in the Bahamas which took out everything that had any electronics in it.
All three battery banks were destroyed with damaged cells and BMS's, and had to be replaced.
Can you send me the electrical drawing? I'm in the planning to do the same...

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Old 08-08-2021, 10:09   #49
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Re: Lightning strikes or EMP taking out lithium bank

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It should be pointed out that marine li batteries are typically LiFepo4 and are far less susceptible to thermal runaway or fire then other Li chemistries.
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Old 08-08-2021, 10:11   #50
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Re: Lightning strikes or EMP taking out lithium bank

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Originally Posted by keelsidedown View Post
If you are ever assigned galley duty on a vessel that leaves the sight of shore, always check the inside of the oven before preheating. It is not uncommon to use the oven as a faraday cage for spare electroics.
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Old 08-08-2021, 10:18   #51
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Re: Lightning strikes or EMP taking out lithium bank

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Loosing a BMS doesnít mean damage to lithiumís follows. Armed with a simple DMM you can quite happily manage the pack manually
Sorry, what is a DMM?
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Old 08-08-2021, 10:45   #52
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Re: Lightning strikes or EMP taking out lithium bank

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As an EMC engineer, I would say that FLA are far more likely to withstand a large surge than a complex, electronically managed battery. But until someone actually tests batteries with a surge tester, its only an educated guess.
Even without lightning, my new to me boat is filled with EMC challenges. I just fixed the microwave sending the boat off by 20 degrees on AP recently.
YES :-)
Most of EMC is produced by oneself. Micorowaves, drywashers, TV and all the other stuff. Always a surprise.
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Old 08-08-2021, 10:48   #53
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Re: Lightning strikes or EMP taking out lithium bank

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I tend to think that the natural caused EMP, namely GIC, caused by a CME, will not affect boats in our size range. Probably any size range. If, OTOH, it is a high altitude, intentional burst, we have that plus maybe more follow-on issues.

I just bought IEC61000-5-10. Hardening is pretty significant, to say the least.
Wow. So many unknown abbreviations. EMP is known, but GIC, CME ???
OTOH - this is an international forum. Sorry to be a German and not a native speaker. Would you please be so kind and enlighten me? Many thx.
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Old 08-08-2021, 10:51   #54
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Re: Lightning strikes or EMP taking out lithium bank

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I suppose what Iím getting out of this thread is that, for those who sail way beyond the horizon, to keep critical backup/spare electronics in a Faraday box. That would include an EXTERNAL BMS for your lithium bank.
Yes! You're absolutely right! Even it would be a lot of money stored in an oven - it is worth it.
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Old 08-08-2021, 12:39   #55
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Re: Lightning strikes or EMP taking out lithium bank

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Sorry, what is a DMM?
My guess is digital multimeter.
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Old 08-08-2021, 13:07   #56
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Re: Lightning strikes or EMP taking out lithium bank

GIC= geomagnetically induced currents
CME= coronal mass ejection.
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Old 08-08-2021, 18:41   #57
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Re: Lightning strikes or EMP taking out lithium bank

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Met an old golfer in Orlando who had been hit several times and survived,,,,,he would always tell about his experiences with lightning strikes while on the 19th green and people would always buy him drinks. Of course he died a few years later when his luck ran out.

Was it from lightning or the free drinks? Curious minds want to know.
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Old 09-08-2021, 06:41   #58
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Re: Lightning strikes or EMP taking out lithium bank

No experience with Lithium batts, but had a serious strike on my boat . We were docked and plugged in to shore power. Fried some electronics and electrical . I bought into the idea that a boat builds static charge and with a mast can provide the terminal for a strike . This is not clear science and there seem to be many explanations out there. So I bought a stainless steel pompom and mounted it to the mast. The idea was to continuously bleed off negative static charge buildup on the boat amd make us invisible to a strike. I also mounted some chicken claws next to it. Well anyway- no strikes after 20 years.
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Old 09-08-2021, 07:15   #59
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Re: Lightning strikes or EMP taking out lithium bank

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Originally Posted by Nibiruwayne View Post
[...] This is not clear science and there seem to be many explanations out there. So I bought a stainless steel pompom and mounted it to the mast. The idea was to continuously bleed off negative static charge buildup on the boat amd make us invisible to a strike. I also mounted some chicken claws next to it. Well anyway- no strikes after 20 years.
Well, congratulations and no, you're not alone! There are other stories from ham radio operators installing similar items above their antennas to prevent a static build-up. I don't have any such system (yet) and what I believe was a nearby strike induced enough current into the backstay to make it arc over to the aluminium MOB flag that was tied to it. What was noticeable was a black spot around the base of the MO flag where it entered the steel deck...
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