Lifepro vs wet cells

[Pizzazz]

I have a quick question about batteries for a new boat (48 ft power motor boat). The boat is 24V, only the generator start and the thruster are 12V. It is a fairly heavy load boat with multiple fridges, windlass, bow thruster, two engines and a generator, electric toilets, electric galley, AC. The last two are not to be used on battery power. The charger is 50A 24V, the alternators are 2x 120A.

Originally the boat had five banks with separate banks for engines, generator, house, SSB and windlass.

I always thought that golf cart batteries are the way to go and in the US the cost works out to approx. $100/104Ahrs @ 12V (1 unit), AGM being 3x this cost and Lithium being 5-7x this cost. Apparently things have changed. In Greece, the wet cell golf cart batteries work out to $200/unit which means $800 for a 24V bank @ 208Ahrs plus a lot of cables to interconnect. For comparison, one can buy 24V @ 150Ahrs Lifepro for double that price with BMS included, only two physical batteries.

So, it seems that in this particular market Lifepro is not that expensive. The question is, do you believe 150Ahrs @ 24V is enough to run a powerboat? I calculate that on a powerboat you have a lot of loads but also a lot of sources (alternators and generator), so there will be frequent charging and discharging. Lithium seems to handle such situations better than wet cells.

So, if you could get 200 Ahrs @ 24V wet cells vs. 150 Ahrs Lifepro for double the price, which one would you choose?

Thank you,
MV Pizzazz

[more]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

In Greece, the wet cell golf cart batteries work out to $200/unit which means $800 for a 24V bank @ 208Ahrs plus a lot of cables to interconnect. For comparison, one can buy 24V @ 150Ahrs Lifepro for double that price with BMS included, only two physical batteries.

So, it seems that in this particular market Lifepro is not that expensive. The question is, do you believe 150Ahrs @ 24V is enough to run a powerboat? I calculate that on a powerboat you have a lot of loads but also a lot of sources (alternators and generator), so there will be frequent charging and discharging. Lithium seems to handle such situations better than wet cells.

So, if you could get 200 Ahrs @ 24V wet cells vs. 150 Ahrs Lifepro for double the price, which one would you choose?

Thank you,
MV Pizzazz

First wrong
TROJAN T-105 6V 225Ah 280-350€ for 24v 1120€

Lithium 200Ah 675€

Trojan agm 400ah 2133€ (but more ussuably energy come from 200 ah lithium)

for 2133€ you can have easy 630-700ah lifepo4
8x lifepo4 200Ah 684$ + tax

For lifepo4 you don't need any BMS you need Victron Equipment MPPT,charger,monitor,inverter end story. you need active cell balancer 5-15A

also on market, you have lot of inverters,mppt who accept user parameters for charging-discharging. but if you charter boat or ussualy have a charter brain you need BMS. Also if you don't understand electrical and want do not use brain need BMS.

[Paul L]

It really isn't useful to compare the costs of wet cell batteries to LiPo batts, since they are not drop in replacements for each other. If you are going to have to add a bunch of new equipment ( like victron as suggested) or replace existing chargers or rewire your charging and load circuits to go to LiPo then you gotta include those costs in the comparison. Basically what is the out of pocket cost for each choice?

[more]

Originally Posted by Paul L

It really isn't useful to compare the costs of wet cell batteries to LiPo batts, since they are not drop in replacements for each other. If you are going to have to add a bunch of new equipment ( like victron as suggested) or replace existing chargers or rewire your charging and load circuits to go to LiPo then you gotta include those costs in the comparison. Basically what is the out of pocket cost for each choice?

again wrong
you have for amateur drop in replacements
https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...cycle-battery/
https://shop.gwl.eu/LiFeYPO4-batteri...LP12V90AH.html
https://www.victronenergy.com/batter...-battery-12-8v

before couple year all Lifepo4 rare come with BMS,Becouse again Lifepo4 for replace lead battery setup don't need BMS.Only you need shot off equalization for your charge setup. and Low voltage cut off 12v.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by more

again wrong
you have for amateur drop in replacements
https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...cycle-battery/
https://shop.gwl.eu/LiFeYPO4-batteri...LP12V90AH.html
https://www.victronenergy.com/batter...-battery-12-8v

before couple year all Lifepo4 rare come with BMS,Becouse again Lifepo4 for replace lead battery setup don't need BMS.Only you need shot off equalization for your charge setup. and Low voltage cut off 12v.

What do you [I]again wronh[I]? I only have one post on this thread.

My statement is actually correct. You need to compare the full cost of installing the two types of batteries that you are comparing. You didn't layout the costs of Battleborn or Victron batteries in your comparison. Many would not choose this type of system for their lifepo upgrad,m some would. But at least compare the full costs. So compare the costs of the AGMs you selected versus the Victron lifepo.

It is out of pocket costs that count.

[Scubaseas]

If you want drop ins, check Rebel Batteries
https://www.youtube.com/c/reBelBatteries/videos

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

I have a quick question about batteries for a new boat (48 ft power motor boat). The boat is 24V, only the generator start and the thruster are 12V. It is a fairly heavy load boat with multiple fridges, windlass, bow thruster, two engines and a generator, electric toilets, electric galley, AC. The last two are not to be used on battery power. The charger is 50A 24V, the alternators are 2x 120A.

Originally the boat had five banks with separate banks for engines, generator, house, SSB and windlass.

I always thought that golf cart batteries are the way to go and in the US the cost works out to approx. $100/104Ahrs @ 12V (1 unit), AGM being 3x this cost and Lithium being 5-7x this cost. Apparently things have changed. In Greece, the wet cell golf cart batteries work out to $200/unit which means $800 for a 24V bank @ 208Ahrs plus a lot of cables to interconnect. For comparison, one can buy 24V @ 150Ahrs Lifepro for double that price with BMS included, only two physical batteries.

So, it seems that in this particular market Lifepro is not that expensive. The question is, do you believe 150Ahrs @ 24V is enough to run a powerboat? I calculate that on a powerboat you have a lot of loads but also a lot of sources (alternators and generator), so there will be frequent charging and discharging. Lithium seems to handle such situations better than wet cells.

So, if you could get 200 Ahrs @ 24V wet cells vs. 150 Ahrs Lifepro for double the price, which one would you choose?

Thank you,
MV Pizzazz

Both have their advantages, LIFPo recharge faster and you can use more of the capacity but they don't always play nice with alternators, are rapidly dropping in price and usually require additional equipment to operate correctly. The wet cells are drop in and should match up to your existing system - and they cost less (but don't last as long making them more expensive in the long run) For a long run approach, I'd bite the bullet and get the LIFPo setup (maybe a 200AH 24v battery if you're unsure about your power requirements) they don't cost a whole lot more than the 150Ah units. Ryan of Dakota batteries did a whole install on his boat and had to jump through some serious hoops to keep from frying his new high output alternators. If you're serious about converting to LIFPo plan on getting a lot of customer service help which may be a no go in Greece. For quick and easy, just stick with the wet cells until you get someplace with solid technical backup for the Lithium systems.