Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-05-2021, 22:40   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Marina del Rey
Boat: Hunter 31
Posts: 1,184
Lifepro vs wet cells

I have a quick question about batteries for a new boat (48 ft power motor boat). The boat is 24V, only the generator start and the thruster are 12V. It is a fairly heavy load boat with multiple fridges, windlass, bow thruster, two engines and a generator, electric toilets, electric galley, AC. The last two are not to be used on battery power. The charger is 50A 24V, the alternators are 2x 120A.

Originally the boat had five banks with separate banks for engines, generator, house, SSB and windlass.

I always thought that golf cart batteries are the way to go and in the US the cost works out to approx. $100/104Ahrs @ 12V (1 unit), AGM being 3x this cost and Lithium being 5-7x this cost. Apparently things have changed. In Greece, the wet cell golf cart batteries work out to $200/unit which means $800 for a 24V bank @ 208Ahrs plus a lot of cables to interconnect. For comparison, one can buy 24V @ 150Ahrs Lifepro for double that price with BMS included, only two physical batteries.

So, it seems that in this particular market Lifepro is not that expensive. The question is, do you believe 150Ahrs @ 24V is enough to run a powerboat? I calculate that on a powerboat you have a lot of loads but also a lot of sources (alternators and generator), so there will be frequent charging and discharging. Lithium seems to handle such situations better than wet cells.

So, if you could get 200 Ahrs @ 24V wet cells vs. 150 Ahrs Lifepro for double the price, which one would you choose?

Thank you,
MV Pizzazz
Pizzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2021, 23:34   #2
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Croatia
Boat: bavaria 38
Posts: 292
Re: Lifepro vs wet cells

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzazz View Post
In Greece, the wet cell golf cart batteries work out to $200/unit which means $800 for a 24V bank @ 208Ahrs plus a lot of cables to interconnect. For comparison, one can buy 24V @ 150Ahrs Lifepro for double that price with BMS included, only two physical batteries.

So, it seems that in this particular market Lifepro is not that expensive. The question is, do you believe 150Ahrs @ 24V is enough to run a powerboat? I calculate that on a powerboat you have a lot of loads but also a lot of sources (alternators and generator), so there will be frequent charging and discharging. Lithium seems to handle such situations better than wet cells.

So, if you could get 200 Ahrs @ 24V wet cells vs. 150 Ahrs Lifepro for double the price, which one would you choose?

Thank you,
MV Pizzazz
First wrong
TROJAN T-105 6V 225Ah 280-350 for 24v 1120

Lithium 200Ah 675

Trojan agm 400ah 2133 (but more ussuably energy come from 200 ah lithium)

for 2133 you can have easy 630-700ah lifepo4
8x lifepo4 200Ah 684$ + tax

For lifepo4 you don't need any BMS you need Victron Equipment MPPT,charger,monitor,inverter end story. you need active cell balancer 5-15A

also on market, you have lot of inverters,mppt who accept user parameters for charging-discharging. but if you charter boat or ussualy have a charter brain you need BMS. Also if you don't understand electrical and want do not use brain need BMS.
more is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2021, 00:48   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 8,850
Re: Lifepro vs wet cells

It really isn't useful to compare the costs of wet cell batteries to LiPo batts, since they are not drop in replacements for each other. If you are going to have to add a bunch of new equipment ( like victron as suggested) or replace existing chargers or rewire your charging and load circuits to go to LiPo then you gotta include those costs in the comparison. Basically what is the out of pocket cost for each choice?
__________________
Paul
Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2021, 01:15   #4
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Croatia
Boat: bavaria 38
Posts: 292
Re: Lifepro vs wet cells

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
It really isn't useful to compare the costs of wet cell batteries to LiPo batts, since they are not drop in replacements for each other. If you are going to have to add a bunch of new equipment ( like victron as suggested) or replace existing chargers or rewire your charging and load circuits to go to LiPo then you gotta include those costs in the comparison. Basically what is the out of pocket cost for each choice?
again wrong
you have for amateur drop in replacements
https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...cycle-battery/
https://shop.gwl.eu/LiFeYPO4-batteri...LP12V90AH.html
https://www.victronenergy.com/batter...-battery-12-8v

before couple year all Lifepo4 rare come with BMS,Becouse again Lifepo4 for replace lead battery setup don't need BMS.Only you need shot off equalization for your charge setup. and Low voltage cut off 12v.
more is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2021, 01:41   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 8,850
Re: Lifepro vs wet cells

Quote:
Originally Posted by more View Post
again wrong
you have for amateur drop in replacements
https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...cycle-battery/
https://shop.gwl.eu/LiFeYPO4-batteri...LP12V90AH.html
https://www.victronenergy.com/batter...-battery-12-8v

before couple year all Lifepo4 rare come with BMS,Becouse again Lifepo4 for replace lead battery setup don't need BMS.Only you need shot off equalization for your charge setup. and Low voltage cut off 12v.
What do you [I]again wronh[I]? I only have one post on this thread.

My statement is actually correct. You need to compare the full cost of installing the two types of batteries that you are comparing. You didn't layout the costs of Battleborn or Victron batteries in your comparison. Many would not choose this type of system for their lifepo upgrad,m some would. But at least compare the full costs. So compare the costs of the AGMs you selected versus the Victron lifepo.

It is out of pocket costs that count.
Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2021, 09:21   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: ME, TCI, On da boat
Boat: Pearson 323, Tayana V42CC
Posts: 796
Images: 1
Re: Lifepro vs wet cells

If you want drop ins, check Rebel Batteries
https://www.youtube.com/c/reBelBatteries/videos
Scubaseas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2021, 16:03   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: So Cal
Posts: 875
Re: Lifepro vs wet cells

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzazz View Post
I have a quick question about batteries for a new boat (48 ft power motor boat). The boat is 24V, only the generator start and the thruster are 12V. It is a fairly heavy load boat with multiple fridges, windlass, bow thruster, two engines and a generator, electric toilets, electric galley, AC. The last two are not to be used on battery power. The charger is 50A 24V, the alternators are 2x 120A.

Originally the boat had five banks with separate banks for engines, generator, house, SSB and windlass.

I always thought that golf cart batteries are the way to go and in the US the cost works out to approx. $100/104Ahrs @ 12V (1 unit), AGM being 3x this cost and Lithium being 5-7x this cost. Apparently things have changed. In Greece, the wet cell golf cart batteries work out to $200/unit which means $800 for a 24V bank @ 208Ahrs plus a lot of cables to interconnect. For comparison, one can buy 24V @ 150Ahrs Lifepro for double that price with BMS included, only two physical batteries.

So, it seems that in this particular market Lifepro is not that expensive. The question is, do you believe 150Ahrs @ 24V is enough to run a powerboat? I calculate that on a powerboat you have a lot of loads but also a lot of sources (alternators and generator), so there will be frequent charging and discharging. Lithium seems to handle such situations better than wet cells.

So, if you could get 200 Ahrs @ 24V wet cells vs. 150 Ahrs Lifepro for double the price, which one would you choose?

Thank you,
MV Pizzazz
Both have their advantages, LIFPo recharge faster and you can use more of the capacity but they don't always play nice with alternators, are rapidly dropping in price and usually require additional equipment to operate correctly. The wet cells are drop in and should match up to your existing system - and they cost less (but don't last as long making them more expensive in the long run) For a long run approach, I'd bite the bullet and get the LIFPo setup (maybe a 200AH 24v battery if you're unsure about your power requirements) they don't cost a whole lot more than the 150Ah units. Ryan of Dakota batteries did a whole install on his boat and had to jump through some serious hoops to keep from frying his new high output alternators. If you're serious about converting to LIFPo plan on getting a lot of customer service help which may be a no go in Greece. For quick and easy, just stick with the wet cells until you get someplace with solid technical backup for the Lithium systems.
joelhemington is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Charging wet cells at anchor freshalaska Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 9 11-03-2021 04:37
How wet is too wet? LouK Monohull Sailboats 1 18-06-2020 15:41
For Sale: Deep Cycle Wet Cells 6349 Classifieds Archive 14 14-01-2014 13:51
Optimal Charging Regimen - Wet Cells akio.kanemoto Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 67 15-02-2012 15:31
Wet Cells and AGMs slowshoes Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 2 11-09-2010 13:35

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:52.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.