LiFePO4 reference diagram, Alternator version

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

I have read most of these lithium threads and I wondered if you have a DC-DC charger on your start battery. Could you possibly give the charger its own on/off switch instead of wiring it to the engine ignition switch? That way if you are doing hours of motoring then you could switch it off and give the alternator a chance to cool down.
If that was possible then could you wire your wind generator to the start battery and when its working turn on the DC-DC charger. I am just curious about that.
Cheers

The Victron dc-dc chargers are smart devices that can be controlled with an app via bluetooth.

Also, for my recommended setup, there is a manual switch in the regulator’s ignition wire so that you can always turn the alternator on/off. Any automatic control is done by a relay in series with that switch so the switch can still turn it off manually.

I don’t do wind generators.

[Cheyne]

I have a simple on/off switch on my Victron Orion XS 50's. When we don't need them they stay off. Like leaving a dock where we have been on shore power. We never run the engines to charge the house bank. I have a small Honda that we use for those emergancy charges. I'm not putting unneccesary hours on my engines to charge the house bank.

Also the new Orion XS 50 amp has VE.Direct. So it is using DVCC for shared voltage and temp from the Cerbo along with my MPPT's and my Inverter/Charger.

Cheyne

[Baronkrak]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Stop using Ah, it is rookie level. The thing you try to talk about is called electrical energy and it is expressed in Wh or kWh.

The use of the unit Ah for energy in a DC circuit by CaptainRivet is correct.
The fact that you struggle to understand that, gives little credibility to electrical advice that you may give.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Baronkrak

The use of the unit Ah for energy in a DC circuit by CaptainRivet is correct.
The fact that you struggle to understand that, gives little credibility to electrical advice that you may give.

Actually not correct in this context .
Ah requires that you post he voltage you are discussing however if you post it as kWh or Wh then it doesn't matter 12v, 24v, or as some on here 48v.

[Baronkrak]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Actually not correct in this context .
Ah requires that you post he voltage you are discussing however if you post it as kWh or Wh then it doesn't matter 12v, 24v, or as some on here 48v.

The voltage makes no difference. If one remove 1 Ah from a 12V battery or remove 1 Ah from a 24V battery or 1 Ah from a 48V battery, the batteries are all short of 1 Ah.
The unit W relate to Alternating Current.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Baronkrak

The voltage makes no difference. If one remove 1 Ah from a 12V battery or remove 1 Ah from a 24V battery or 1 Ah from a 48V battery, the batteries are all short of 1 Ah.
The unit W relate to Alternating Current.

Ok how many Wh in an ah at 12v. Now same question at 48v ?
1Ah at 12v is = to 1/4 Ah at 48v
Using Wh and KWh simplifies the equation no need to state your voltage of your bank

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You have lost your way Rivet. My recommendation is to have a direct circuit from alternator to house battery and only one post ago you claimed you understood that but now you start rambling about losses in a 30A dc-dc charger again. You lost it.

No, my setup has zero loss apart for cabling, crimps etc.

Not loosing it at all. You stated the argofet produces a lot heat, you can heat your boat with.
Its 20W per argofet, means in my case 20W loss in heat in starter+house charging via alternator.
In your case 2x DC2DC 30A has 33A in, 27 out means 5Ax12V=60W heat or 120W total.
Which one is heating now your boat...yours...
Which one has more losses, yours
Which one needs an externally regulated alternator, means high cost for conversion+regulator...yours
Which one voids volvo engine warranty...yours
Both are equally save.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Not loosing it at all. You stated the argofet produces a lot heat, you can heat your boat with.
Its 20W per argofet, means in my case 20W loss in heat in starter+house charging via alternator.
In your case 2x DC2DC 30A has 33A in, 27 out means 5Ax12V=60W heat or 120W total.
Which one is heating now your boat...yours...
Which one has more losses, yours
Which one needs an externally regulated alternator, means high cost for conversion+regulator...yours
Which one voids volvo engine warranty...yours
Both are equally save.

Read the diagram again
Externall6 regulated alternator to LiFePO4 and a single dc2dc from house to AGM start bank. What losses ? As you yourself said less than 5 minutes to recharge the ah or so used starting the main .

There are 2 of most items as jedi believes in built in redundancy.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Not loosing it at all. You stated the argofet produces a lot heat, you can heat your boat with.
Its 20W per argofet, means in my case 20W loss in heat in starter+house charging via alternator.
In your case 2x DC2DC 30A has 33A in, 27 out means 5Ax12V=60W heat or 120W total.
Which one is heating now your boat...yours...
Which one has more losses, yours
Which one needs an externally regulated alternator, means high cost for conversion+regulator...yours
Which one voids volvo engine warranty...yours
Both are equally save.

99% of us don't care one bit about your volvo warranty. Most of us are well past that on our engines

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Read the diagram again
Externall6 regulated alternator to LiFePO4 and a single dc2dc from house to AGM start bank. What losses ? As you yourself said less than 5 minutes to recharge the ah or so used starting the main .

There are 2 of most items as jedi believes in built in redundancy.

2 DC2DC in the diagramm without any doubt and being on creating losses.
The DC2DC creates 60W or 40W (18A) loss, using 2 makes 120W or 80W loss.
Using argofet also 2 for redudancy to compare apples to apples is 2x20W=40w
Means 120W (30A version) or 80W (18A version) versus 40W loss, or jedi solution double/triple of losses argofet

And now go to cost side...cabling and fuses are more or less equal in both
Jedi solution:
2x DC2DC are 460Euro (30A ones) or 340(18A ones)
Regulator alternator 350Euro minimum
Conversion alternator 100Euro (let's take best case for his solution)

My solution (argofet)
2x200A argofet=340Euro
So it's 910Euro versus 340Euro, means nearly triple for the same charge to house and starter and the same safe solution.
Yes starter doesn't get the perfect charge, so lives a bit shorter but for 450/570Euro I can buy multiple starters and also a 3rd argofet as spare part.
Yes I cannot regulate the alternator back in small steps like with an external regulator but a 1-2-off switch I can cut the sensewire manually -off, on 1 full blast and have on -2- a resistor that reduces the sense wire so get 50% output. More then sufficent for 95% of vessels. Yes that mod is another 30Euro, still delta of 540Euro.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by newhaul

99% of us don't care one bit about your volvo warranty. Most of us are well past that on our engines

Wrong again, there are loads of new boats or repowered boats that have 5 years warranty on their new volvos. Definitely 10% if not 15 incl. Repower...not on your boatyard but out there. Yes me 2, still have 2 years warranty on the 67000Euro repower install paid by former owner...
And they want lithium and need a solution.
The recommended solution by Jedi, manufacturers and most installers: DC2DC and castration the alternator (because cheaper, manufacturer don't need to change anything in install to lead, just flip to lifepo4 profile and install DC2DC)
And also all of them then have serpentine belt an the 115A Mitsubishi that works perfect with a argofet to deliver 85A constant with warranty, add a 2nd and you get 170A charge with warranty from 1 engine.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Wrong again, there are loads of new boats or repowered boats that have 5 years warranty on their new volvos. Definitely 10% if not 15 incl. Repower...not on your boatyard but out there. Yes me 2, still have 2 years warranty on the 67000Euro repower install paid by former owner...
And they want lithium and need a solution.
The recommended solution by Jedi, manufacturers and most installers: DC2DC and castration the alternator (because cheaper, manufacturer don't need to change anything in install to lead, just flip to lifepo4 profile and install DC2DC)
And also all of them then have serpentine belt an the 115A Mitsubishi that works perfect with a argofet to deliver 85A constant with warranty, add a 2nd and you get 170A charge with warranty from 1 engine.

You're really are not paying attention to what we are writing .

The alternator in jedi's has an external regulator to feed the lifepo4 house and a single dc2dc 30 amp to feed the AGM start bank. The second shown is just a spare for redundancy he is not using two dc2dc to charge start bank. Read what he wrote in post #1 of this thread.
Now one final word . Your boat your choice . ,my boat my choice . His boat his choice .
My install the dc2cc from lead start battery to charge lifepo4 when the engine is running.

[s/v Jedi]

The amount of meaningless dribble is astonishing and now we get Einsteins defying laws of nature showing us that free energy can be had by just lowering voltage. Applause, you managed to flabbergast me

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by newhaul

You're really are not paying attention to what we are writing .

The alternator in jedi's has an external regulator to feed the lifepo4 house and a single dc2dc 30 amp to feed the AGM start bank. The second shown is just a spare for redundancy he is not using two dc2dc to charge start bank. Read what he wrote in post #1 of this thread.
Now one final word . Your boat your choice . ,my boat my choice . His boat his choice .
My install the dc2cc from lead start battery to charge lifepo4 when the engine is running.

Yes and I have only one argofet, doesn't change the result. 2 argofets versus 2 DC2DC or 1 versus 1.
The Argofet also runs at 85A of 200A so loss is below 10W, means negligible.
The DC2DC 30A even in float uses more then 10W heat.
In short neither argofet or direct and via DC2DC both have minimal neglectable losses (contradicting what Jedi wrongli stated) but if you start comparing the argofets wins.

I just make clear to everyone what's the available solutions and what's good, bad, costs and what's the aim of every solution. Then everyone can choose which solution he/she chooses for his system.
The argofet solution is not well known, that the alternators on newer volvo,yanmar, beta (with serpentine) is fully capable of charging a lifepo4 and can fully protevt itself without any modifications. Also a lot of misinformation and wrong statements about it as seen in this thread.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The amount of meaningless dribble is astonishing and now we get Einsteins defying laws of nature showing us that free energy can be had by just lowering voltage. Applause, you managed to flabbergast me

Facts...