LiFePO4 reference diagram, Alternator version

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Baronkrak

You keep repeating the same; can you present some technical evidences to support your claim?

Manly batteries

“
　　First of all, the answer is: lithium batteries and lead-acid batteries can not be used in parallel.
　　1, the discharge platform is not the same
　　Lithium battery single is 3.7V, lead-acid single is 2 * 2 = 4V, (lead-acid single cell is 2V, a battery can do 2-6 cells, or even 8 cells, that is, 4-16V), if together there will be a kind of electricity used up, the other has a lot of electricity (related to the battery capacity).

　　2, charging performance is not the same
　　Lead-acid batteries are charged in the same way, that is, constant current and constant voltage charging; UPS lithium battery is first constant current and then constant voltage charging, if the beginning of the constant voltage will activate the lithium battery management board protection function leads to non-charging, or charging current is too high, damage to battery life, the battery can not be used 50 times.”

“For battery safety, we do not recommend combining different types of lithium batteries and lead-acid batteries. This is because the load characteristics and capabilities of these batteries are drastically different which can lead to safety issues. Due to this, do not directly combine these batteries in parallel or series.

Battle born

Our team of experts at Battle Born Batteries does not recommend that you ever mix batteries’ chemistry, or battery types. Doing so can be detrimental to your system in a number of ways. “

ISO TS 23625

“4.9 In normal operation, different battery chemistries should not be connected in parallel or in series. «

Solar Power World
“

Gordon Gunn, electrical engineer at Freedom Solar Power in Texas, said it is likely possible to connect lead-acid and lithium batteries together, but only through AC coupling.

“You absolutely cannot connect lead-acid and lithium batteries on the same DC bus,” he said. “At best, it would ruin the batteries, and at worst…fire? “



Of course so called CF “ experts “ know better about everything and will ignore reputable lithium battery suppliers , high reputation standards bodies etc.

Please stop telling me nonsense. This like trying to educate climate deniers who refuse to examine clear evidence readily found at the end of a Google search but instead listen to some “ social media “ type tell “ I’ve done it this way for years …»

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Manly batteries

“
　　First of all, the answer is: lithium batteries and lead-acid batteries can not be used in parallel.
　　1, the discharge platform is not the same
　　Lithium battery single is 3.7V, lead-acid single is 2 * 2 = 4V, (lead-acid single cell is 2V, a battery can do 2-6 cells, or even 8 cells, that is, 4-16V), if together there will be a kind of electricity used up, the other has a lot of electricity (related to the battery capacity).

　　2, charging performance is not the same
　　Lead-acid batteries are charged in the same way, that is, constant current and constant voltage charging; UPS lithium battery is first constant current and then constant voltage charging, if the beginning of the constant voltage will activate the lithium battery management board protection function leads to non-charging, or charging current is too high, damage to battery life, the battery can not be used 50 times.”

“For battery safety, we do not recommend combining different types of lithium batteries and lead-acid batteries. This is because the load characteristics and capabilities of these batteries are drastically different which can lead to safety issues. Due to this, do not directly combine these batteries in parallel or series.

Battle born

Our team of experts at Battle Born Batteries does not recommend that you ever mix batteries’ chemistry, or battery types. Doing so can be detrimental to your system in a number of ways. “

ISO TS 23625

“4.9 In normal operation, different battery chemistries should not be connected in parallel or in series. «

Solar Power World
“

Gordon Gunn, electrical engineer at Freedom Solar Power in Texas, said it is likely possible to connect lead-acid and lithium batteries together, but only through AC coupling.

“You absolutely cannot connect lead-acid and lithium batteries on the same DC bus,” he said. “At best, it would ruin the batteries, and at worst…fire? “



Of course so called CF “ experts “ know better about everything and will ignore reputable lithium battery suppliers , high reputation standards bodies etc.

Please stop telling me nonsense. This like trying to educate climate deniers who refuse to examine clear evidence readily found at the end of a Google search but instead listen to some “ social media “ type tell “ I’ve done it this way for years …»

Let's see start with your first bs statement.

Discharge is rates are same or similar in house bank usage. ( these are not ev cars) .
Who uses a single cell of either NOBODY. 4 lfp is 14.4 ( 3.6 per cell ) ( 3.7 is chargeing and I would not do it for long damage will result ) lead-acid is 2.3. 13.8 at rest
Anything else you posted on it is obscurification.

Both have similar charge profiles . You can charge both to full with the same charging gear. Just need to limit alternator amp output to control heat due to lower internal resistance in the lfp bank.

Next you start talking about ups lithium batteries. ( what type?) Not lfp .

No idea where you got your statement about safety but sounds like bs again .

Your Battle born statement out of context as well as a seller that would lose profits if you did combine lead with their product. ( they never say what the actual issues they reference are.)

Your ISO Ts 23625 is a red hearing. None of our discussion WRT combining different battery chemistries is not in normal operation. The statement is therefore meaningless.

Your statement from a man that works for a company that pays his salary by selling lithium batteries and charging systems. Well that says it all.

We don't ignore reliable sources of information but do generally apply the CRAAP test to it.
And don't mention the climate word it causes to many issues wrt actual discussions.

[krid2000]

Jedi,

in the diagram, you have an RBS on the negative side of the windlass, labeled "neg. windlass disconnect for remote safety and corrosion protection."

I understand the corrosion protection, but wonder what you mean by "remote safety".

I'm planning to install an RBS, as my current windlass setup is a switch next to the anchor locker door in the V-berth that I have to crawl to, and it's annoying me. Wondering if I should set up the RBS to switch positive or the negative side of the windlass.

Thanks!
Dirk

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by krid2000

Jedi,

in the diagram, you have an RBS on the negative side of the windlass, labeled "neg. windlass disconnect for remote safety and corrosion protection."

I understand the corrosion protection, but wonder what you mean by "remote safety".

I'm planning to install an RBS, as my current windlass setup is a switch next to the anchor locker door in the V-berth that I have to crawl to, and it's annoying me. Wondering if I should set up the RBS to switch positive or the negative side of the windlass.

Thanks!
Dirk

The remote switch is a safety device because boats have been lost when their windlass malfunctioned and hauled up anchor with nobody aboard etc.
A switch like you have now is an incentive to not use it due to not being user friendly. This can be fixed with a remote switch.

You have a choice to put it either in the positive or negative conductor assuming you already have a fuse in the positive conductor. That’s why it’s better to be put in the negative conductor because this also blocks any DC ground current through a circuit formed by deployed anchor, chain and windlass metal parts to batteries

[krid2000]

Thanks!
Dirk

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The remote switch is a safety device because boats have been lost when their windlass malfunctioned and hauled up anchor with nobody aboard etc.

That is one of my reasons for my manual windlass. No accidental weighing of the anchor.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by newhaul

That is one of my reasons for my manual windlass. No accidental weighing of the anchor.

A good reason. I won’t be nasty and mention the #1 reason people stay with their manual windlass

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

A good reason. I won’t be nasty and mention the #1 reason people stay with their manual windlass

For me it's the weight issue at the bow of my little world cruiser.

[N1DZTmm]

"I may not agree with what you post, but I will defend to the death your right to post it."

Or some such.

Here's a question: I'm installing LiFePO4 in my cruising sailboat. What kind of alarms should I have (i.e. smoke, carbon monoxide, etc.). I'm told they don't normally give off gasses, but when damaged (e.g. in a knock-down/turtle capsize) do they release toxic gasses, and if so, is there a useful monitor? Thanks.

(If two men start mansplaining to each other on a forum, does one have to die for it to end?)

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by N1DZTmm

"I may not agree with what you post, but I will defend to the death your right to post it."

Or some such.

Here's a question: I'm installing LiFePO4 in my cruising sailboat. What kind of alarms should I have (i.e. smoke, carbon monoxide, etc.). I'm told they don't normally give off gasses, but when damaged (e.g. in a knock-down/turtle capsize) do they release toxic gasses, and if so, is there a useful monitor? Thanks.

(If two men start mansplaining to each other on a forum, does one have to die for it to end?)

Specific to lifepo4 no however yes you should have a smoke detector high up in the cabin . also a carbon monoxide detector mounted below uour sleeping platform carbon monoxide is heavier than air and will collect low in the boat so you want the alarm to go off before you are below the carbon monoxide. It will kill.

[Dirk01]

Sorry, but the specific weight of carbon monoxide is very close to air. That is why it is recommended to install the sensor in hight of your sleeping place.
I just did it for my daughter who rented a little pure wood heated holiday home. I informed myself deeply as you can imagine.

Cheers
Dirk

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Dirk01

Sorry, but the specific weight of carbon monoxide is very close to air. That is why it is recommended to install the sensor in hight of your sleeping place.
I just did it for my daughter who rented a little pure wood heated holiday home. I informed myself deeply as you can imagine.

Cheers
Dirk

This is correct. Positioning low is a myth, driven by sensors for propane which accumulates low.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

This is correct. Positioning low is a myth, driven by sensors for propane which accumulates low.

Can I suggest that if you have a carbon monoxide problem, then something is probably burning and likely hot. So the hot air (and smoke) will rise up inside a yacht.

We have smoke and CO alarms up high and LPG low down.

Pete

[N1DZTmm]

All very helpful. Thank you.

Does having a battery "drain protector" such as

" Victron Energy Smart BatteryProtect 12/24-Volt 220 amp with built-in Bluetooth, disconnects the battery from non-essential loads before it is completely discharged (which would damage the battery) or before it has insufficient power left to crank the engine. "

Help in maximizing the number of charge cycles in a LiFePO4 battery bank?

I think it would have helped me with my old Lead/acid bank (which I killed through poor charging schedules) - but will I can't find whether it will help with the Lithium upgrade. Thanks, everybody-

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by N1DZTmm

All very helpful. Thank you.

Does having a battery "drain protector" such as

" Victron Energy Smart BatteryProtect 12/24-Volt 220 amp with built-in Bluetooth, disconnects the battery from non-essential loads before it is completely discharged (which would damage the battery) or before it has insufficient power left to crank the engine. "

Help in maximizing the number of charge cycles in a LiFePO4 battery bank?

I think it would have helped me with my old Lead/acid bank (which I killed through poor charging schedules) - but will I can't find whether it will help with the Lithium upgrade. Thanks, everybody-

It depends on the design of the rest of the system. It is the job of the BMS to perform the function of disconnecting the battery before it is completely drained. A drop-in battery has this function built it. Some installs use a BMS with built in FETs to do this. Some BMSs will control relays to do this. And some will control a device such as the battery protect to do it.
I do not believe there is a reason to use a battery protect as a stand alone device to perform the function, but I am sure some people have used it that way.