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Old 22-10-2022, 11:03   #106
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Re: LFP batteries now proven to be 100% safe

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When you make the switch to LIFEPO4 with the 240 watts solar you will be happy . So will your LifePo4 house bank for the next 30+ years . But for good longevity if you have the room go with the 400ah. Never heard a sailor say they have to much power . You will find a use for it .
I wonder about the 30 years: manufacturers state a 10 year lifespan which they define as having at least 80% of rated capacity.

I don’t think we know everything about calendar aging.
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Old 22-10-2022, 11:09   #107
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Re: LFP batteries now proven to be 100% safe

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I’m not even sure what he means… normally this is between parallel cells when they aren’t matched, but I don’t see how parallel batteries can circulate an internal current… by definition, the internal current doesn’t exist outside the battery


Correct.
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Old 22-10-2022, 11:16   #108
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LFP batteries now proven to be 100% safe

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Don’t forget to install some extra capacity to feed the solenoids



Have you seen the new cylindrical 100Ah cells? They have studs at the ends like LTO cells.


Yes I wakeup at nights sweating about the 1.5Ah nightly draws of the TE relay. I’m climbing the mast next week to replace my incandescent anchor bulb with a led anchor and tricolour , I think I can power 4 te relays with the difference !!!

I already have a considerable collection of LFp cells. So not seen the Cylinder LFP

Anyone comment in my idea to Remove the starter LA and start from the LFp.
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Old 22-10-2022, 11:20   #109
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Re: LFP batteries now proven to be 100% safe

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I wonder about the 30 years: manufacturers state a 10 year lifespan which they define as having at least 80% of rated capacity.



I don’t think we know everything about calendar aging.


I agree

Too many variables to draw any consistent conclusions
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Old 22-10-2022, 11:46   #110
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Re: LFP batteries now proven to be 100% safe

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I wonder about the 30 years: manufacturers state a 10 year lifespan which they define as having at least 80% of rated capacity.

I don’t think we know everything about calendar aging.
Think about this sv third day ( Rich has been running lfp for over 10 years and reported no loss of capacity as of yet . Mainsail same thing . So I am hopeful . But even with the calendar aging say I lose 20% of my capacity well that still would leave me 210ah to run on with my rated 240ah bank . Yes I say 250ah due to capacity testing showing 263ah every year for 4 years now . And with a 35ah usage I still have 4 days easy with no charging . I would be fine with that but I fully expect to still have full ah capacity.

We are learning about calendar aging . One of the papers from iirc CALB says calendar aging applies to shelf life before placing into service.
I will see if I can dig it up .
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Old 22-10-2022, 12:30   #111
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LFP batteries now proven to be 100% safe

One or two anecdotes are of course not enough.

We know the degradation actions for lithium ion
*%DoD
*Temp
* calendar ageing
*sei layer growth/slow charging
* floating charge
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Old 22-10-2022, 14:20   #112
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Re: LFP batteries now proven to be 100% safe

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Think about this sv third day ( Rich has been running lfp for over 10 years and reported no loss of capacity as of yet . Mainsail same thing . So I am hopeful . But even with the calendar aging say I lose 20% of my capacity well that still would leave me 210ah to run on with my rated 240ah bank . Yes I say 250ah due to capacity testing showing 263ah every year for 4 years now . And with a 35ah usage I still have 4 days easy with no charging . I would be fine with that but I fully expect to still have full ah capacity.

We are learning about calendar aging . One of the papers from iirc CALB says calendar aging applies to shelf life before placing into service.
I will see if I can dig it up .
I see other things happening. I see 305Ah cells (or even more, who knows!) being sold as B-grade 280Ah cells (after years of pretending they were grade A or even new). If deteriorated too much, they simply sold them as 265Ah cells etc. All that is dark side stuff.

On the other hand, Rod Collins as well as me bought Winston cells and we find a capacity that is 20% higher than rated. So that immediately makes me think those 280Ah cells also measured much higher when they were new or when they are not rejected during the manufacturing process.

The reason cells measure more, just like the quality solar panels do, is to succeed in the warranty claims of having 80% of capacity left after 10 years for cells or even after 25 years for solar panels. This also means that they anticipate not a 20% decline but rather a 40% decline.

Now all the people buying the 280Ah cells. They just learned that their cells are in fact grade B and all cells sold from now on will report as grade B on their factory QR codes. The first ones replacing that code with metal stickers with fake codes have already shown up. Anyway, how old are your 280Ah cells, what was their original rating? Why were they rejected? Who uses the cells that aren’t rejected, what capacity do those have, how long before they sell them off and how much did they pay for them!

I was very happy to buy the real deal: virgin cells with sequential serial numbers, perfectly matched, 20% more capacity than the label says and at $1 per Ah. Even when doing wire transfers to China, dealing with rude and annoying clearance agents from Fedex and getting slapped with a lovely tariff by Trump… I am still perfectly happy with the cells and my first preference would be to buy them for my next battery as well
(But being able to do without the second battery as long as the first one works, I may try some cheap drop-ins that allow me access to cell terminals )
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Old 22-10-2022, 14:30   #113
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Re: LFP batteries now proven to be 100% safe

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I see other things happening. I see 305Ah cells (or even more, who knows!) being sold as B-grade 280Ah cells (after years of pretending they were grade A or even new). If deteriorated too much, they simply sold them as 265Ah cells etc. All that is dark side stuff.

On the other hand, Rod Collins as well as me bought Winston cells and we find a capacity that is 20% higher than rated. So that immediately makes me think those 280Ah cells also measured much higher when they were new or when they are not rejected during the manufacturing process.

The reason cells measure more, just like the quality solar panels do, is to succeed in the warranty claims of having 80% of capacity left after 10 years for cells or even after 25 years for solar panels. This also means that they anticipate not a 20% decline but rather a 40% decline.

Now all the people buying the 280Ah cells. They just learned that their cells are in fact grade B and all cells sold from now on will report as grade B on their factory QR codes. The first ones replacing that code with metal stickers with fake codes have already shown up. Anyway, how old are your 280Ah cells, what was their original rating? Why were they rejected? Who uses the cells that aren’t rejected, what capacity do those have, how long before they sell them off and how much did they pay for them!

I was very happy to buy the real deal: virgin cells with sequential serial numbers, perfectly matched, 20% more capacity than the label says and at $1 per Ah. Even when doing wire transfers to China, dealing with rude and annoying clearance agents from Fedex and getting slapped with a lovely tariff by Trump… I am still perfectly happy with the cells and my first preference would be to buy them for my next battery as well
(But being able to do without the second battery as long as the first one works, I may try some cheap drop-ins that allow me access to cell terminals )
Thats how I got my CALB cells direct business to business look at my YouTube page there is a sideshow of the battery and all parts .
All checked out A grade . Same batch cells
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Old 22-10-2022, 14:32   #114
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LFP batteries now proven to be 100% safe

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I see other things happening. I see 305Ah cells (or even more, who knows!) being sold as B-grade 280Ah cells (after years of pretending they were grade A or even new). If deteriorated too much, they simply sold them as 265Ah cells etc. All that is dark side stuff.



On the other hand, Rod Collins as well as me bought Winston cells and we find a capacity that is 20% higher than rated. So that immediately makes me think those 280Ah cells also measured much higher when they were new or when they are not rejected during the manufacturing process.



The reason cells measure more, just like the quality solar panels do, is to succeed in the warranty claims of having 80% of capacity left after 10 years for cells or even after 25 years for solar panels. This also means that they anticipate not a 20% decline but rather a 40% decline.



Now all the people buying the 280Ah cells. They just learned that their cells are in fact grade B and all cells sold from now on will report as grade B on their factory QR codes. The first ones replacing that code with metal stickers with fake codes have already shown up. Anyway, how old are your 280Ah cells, what was their original rating? Why were they rejected? Who uses the cells that aren’t rejected, what capacity do those have, how long before they sell them off and how much did they pay for them!



I was very happy to buy the real deal: virgin cells with sequential serial numbers, perfectly matched, 20% more capacity than the label says and at $1 per Ah. Even when doing wire transfers to China, dealing with rude and annoying clearance agents from Fedex and getting slapped with a lovely tariff by Trump… I am still perfectly happy with the cells and my first preference would be to buy them for my next battery as well

(But being able to do without the second battery as long as the first one works, I may try some cheap drop-ins that allow me access to cell terminals )


But what’s your point. Are all cheap cells crap , no , are all cheap cells good , no

Are some expensive “ named “ brands better then “ one hung lo” brands , well doh !!


I mean this is not “ new” stuff.

In my view if you buy cheap , add 25% capacity headroom at a minimum then you won’t notice the missing capacity. !!

I have some cheap LFP cells, they perform adequately at around 75% of plated capacity. We understand what we are buying , “cheap stuff from China “
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Old 22-10-2022, 14:35   #115
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Re: LFP batteries now proven to be 100% safe

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Thats how I got my CALB cells direct business to business look at my YouTube page there is a sideshow of the battery and all parts .
All checked out A grade . Same batch cells
A grade turned out to be B grade… or worse. It’s only been a short while that manufacturers agreed to not label them as A grade anymore.

Are your serial numbers sequential? If they are virgin cells then they must be as this is how they go onto pellets… without the rejects of course, so there may be a missing number now and then and those all go on different pellets, where you get numbers not sequential at all and they are sold to the hot new seller on Alibaba who gets raving reviews and will guarantee top rated cells or money back
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Old 22-10-2022, 14:43   #116
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Re: LFP batteries now proven to be 100% safe

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
A grade turned out to be B grade… or worse. It’s only been a short while that manufacturers agreed to not label them as A grade anymore.

Are your serial numbers sequential? If they are virgin cells then they must be as this is how they go onto pellets… without the rejects of course, so there may be a missing number now and then and those all go on different pellets, where you get numbers not sequential at all and they are sold to the hot new seller on Alibaba who gets raving reviews and will guarantee top rated cells or money back
I think there was a single digit missing in the lot aka 1234, 1235, 1237, and 1238
Like that not those actual numbers
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Old 22-10-2022, 15:07   #117
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Re: LFP batteries now proven to be 100% safe

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A grade turned out to be B grade… or worse. It’s only been a short while that manufacturers agreed to not label them as A grade anymore.



Are your serial numbers sequential? If they are virgin cells then they must be as this is how they go onto pellets… without the rejects of course, so there may be a missing number now and then and those all go on different pellets, where you get numbers not sequential at all and they are sold to the hot new seller on Alibaba who gets raving reviews and will guarantee top rated cells or money back


Since there’s no standard definition of what A or B grade is what’s the point anyway it’s just a “ moniker «

As for Alibaba or Aliexpress reviews let’s not annoy each other

I’ve 567 orders from China as of today. Most are “ok” once you have no delusions about what you are buying.
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Old 23-10-2022, 12:06   #118
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Re: LFP batteries now proven to be 100% safe

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Thats how I got my CALB cells direct business to business look at my YouTube page there is a sideshow of the battery and all parts .
All checked out A grade . Same batch cells
How do I find your YouTube page?
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Old 23-10-2022, 12:33   #119
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Re: LFP batteries now proven to be 100% safe

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How do I find your YouTube page?
Sorry I didn't link to it
https://youtu.be/qYyxW2i8EcI
This is to the battery video there are several others just sporadic as all get out . Hoping to get more consistent in the future
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Old 23-10-2022, 13:28   #120
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Re: LFP batteries now proven to be 100% safe

Our 24 X EVE 280 cells purchased from the well respected Amy Wan @ Shenzhen Luyuan were all sold as A grade matched and batched and, we paid a slight premium for it.

All numbers were near enough sequential
All capacity testing showed them higher than 280ah
QR code app showed them all from the same batch manufactured in July 2021 and we had them arrive early 2022.
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