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Old 14-05-2022, 14:31   #16
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Re: Inverter recommendations

Why do you recommend 24v? I was thinking to keep 12v. any reasons why I should go through the trouble to change everything?
so I need the BMS as well as the viltron inverter charger? I see some batteries have a built in BMS. im guessing that's sort of a budget thing for some people and the proper BMS allows more personalized control. Im guessing the Tao and REC can link well with viltron?
can you speak of the advantages of buying cells instead of drop in batteries?
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Old 21-05-2022, 13:42   #17
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Re: Inverter recommendations

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Originally Posted by captianjuan View Post
Why do you recommend 24v? I was thinking to keep 12v. any reasons why I should go through the trouble to change everything?
so I need the BMS as well as the viltron inverter charger? I see some batteries have a built in BMS. im guessing that's sort of a budget thing for some people and the proper BMS allows more personalized control. Im guessing the Tao and REC can link well with viltron?
can you speak of the advantages of buying cells instead of drop in batteries?
The issue with the BMSs in the “drop in” batteries (the ones that come with a BMS) is they don’t integrate with the rest of the system. They monitor their cells, and will generally cut off the output if things go too far out of spec. Yes, they can be monitored with an app on your phone, but that doesn’t help the rest of your system.

An integrated system puts your BMS in the driver’s seat when it comes to charging (and discharging). Because the BMS is watching each cell (or pairs of cells in my case), it knows how much current it can handle at any given stage of charge. Rather than having to manually set all the charging points on your inverter/charger, solar controllers, alternators, etc… the BMS sets these on the fly. This means that as the batteries approach full, it will taper off the charging smoothly so that all the cells can settle etc… very nice.

The other advantage of doing a BMS and cells is that (at least until recently) you can generally get significantly higher capacity for the same amount of money. I’ve got 460Ah on my boat, if I had gone with the Victron batteries I probably would only have been able to get 200Ah or so, plus I was able to build it to fit the tight space on my boat.

For reference, I’m running the following gear:

REC ABMS
Victron Multiplus II 12/2000/80 inverter/charger
Victron Cerbo GX
Victron MPPTs
Wakespeed WS500 alternator regulator.
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Old 22-05-2022, 02:00   #18
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Re: Inverter recommendations

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Why do you recommend 24v?
Doubling the voltage halves the amperage, so thinner wires for a starters, useful for high loads like windlass or bow thruster.

Probably not worth it on a smaller yacht particularly if some kit is already in place. However, larger yes, particularly if you are effectively starting from scratch.

Note, the Victron inverters are rated in Kva, not watts, so read the small print to discover 3Kva is about 2.Kw. Good news is you can you can either one big Victron multi or two smaller ones which will sync and give some redundancy if one fails.

If you are starting from scratch, I might be tempted to start with the galley and spec what you want and how much power that will need. Then work backwards though the other major appliances like the washing machine and WM. You don't need to chose the exact model, just know the likely power requirements particularly if two or more could be used at the same time.

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Old 22-05-2022, 03:30   #19
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Re: Inverter recommendations

I would countenance caution Re bi facial panels they are heavy and can be vulnerable
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Old 22-05-2022, 04:01   #20
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Re: Inverter recommendations

Another bonus of the Victron multipluss (and quatro) is there is power boost support to either shore power or generator. So say you have a small genie that delivers 2000 w and a Multipluss 2000W inverter. IF for some reason you need an AC start up load of 3000W the multipluss will stop battery charging and add another 2000 w.
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Old 22-05-2022, 04:20   #21
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Re: Inverter recommendations

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I would countenance caution Re bi facial panels they are heavy and can be vulnerable
Sorry thats completely wrong, so 1000% wrong.
They weight the same +/-300g if from the same manufacturer and size. They can weight a little more or less depending what they then use on th backside but that also adds stability.
I have the Longli bifacial 365W ones and they are actually lighter then same size LG polycristalin ones AND they have a full massive aluframe, awesome to mount directly on the beams of the davids. Done that, plus drilled holes from the sides, put butyl tape between and then connect the pannels, amazingly ridged plus the dinghy is completely protected from rain. That saves you the weight and costs of a mounting frame,so much lighter at the end.
Mine survived an 8m rouge wave and 48kn of wind, would buy them again without a sec of thinking
Mine are flat on the davids, so parallel to the water and they start producing when sun comes up, first mainly backsides as sun is low but reflexes through the water and an hour later it ramps up as sun is 30/40degrees tothe panel the front kicks additional in. 3x365WP are 3mx1,7m which produces real 1320W=110A charge and even low light totally clouded still 30-40A. Plus much less prone to shading as reflection is all around on the water, they are a real game changer especially on passage. Wouldn't mount anything else, only if i am forced to use semiflexible ones to be able to walk on them and choice is nothing or semiflexible.
Bifacial work with diffussion light=Reflexions additional to normal sunlight. In solar farms they are mounted fixed vertically due to that.
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Old 22-05-2022, 07:35   #22
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Re: Inverter recommendations

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Originally Posted by Tin Tin View Post
Another bonus of the Victron multipluss (and quatro) is there is power boost support to either shore power or generator. So say you have a small genie that delivers 2000 w and a Multipluss 2000W inverter. IF for some reason you need an AC start up load of 3000W the multipluss will stop battery charging and add another 2000 w.
Actually, I don't think this is completely correct. I was just reading about Power Boost on the Victron community site, and the upshot is that if your Multi is a 3000 (eg. MultiPlus II 12/3000/120-50/120) - then that is the max amount of current you can draw from it is 3000watt (and probably less in real world conditions).

The example you are thinking of has to include a scenario where the MP is capable of delivering more watts than your AC input can provide. So, if you have a small gen which delivers only 2000watt, and you have a MP 3000, then the MP can draw another 1000watt from batteries and combine that power with the 2000 from AC input to get a total of up to 3000watt.

I would love to be wrong about this, and I cannot find the Victron community post where I read this, so if someone more knowledgable can chime in on this I would appreciate it.
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Old 22-05-2022, 11:21   #23
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Re: Inverter recommendations

Each MP has a dedicated throughput/transfer switch capability eg 12/3000/16.
This means it a can handle 2400W/230V=10.5A +16A=31.5A at 230V
The shore power assist function of MG can be adjusted 4-16A, which means the MP assist the "Shorepower" connected to AC in from 4-16A and adds its 10.5A. Means if you have assist adjusted to 6A and you need 16A for your cooktop then she Victron routes this 6A trough and assist then with 10A from the MP inverter.
Well and the Shorepower source can be real grid, or a generator or a 2nd inverter��that delivers the 6A. The Quattro has a 2nd AC in which is dedicated to connect a gen.
I never connect to grid so I boost the MP 3000 with a 2nd cheaper 3500W HF inverter connected to AC in as fake Shorepower.
If i have loads till 2400W then she always on MP inverter handler id alone. When I need more AC power then I switch on the 3,5kw HF inverter which is used as 10A Shorepower supply,assist ir set to 10A and the MP routes+adds its 2400W=4400W continous, could add 1500 more, so 5,9kw.
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Old 22-05-2022, 18:17   #24
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Re: Inverter recommendations

As I understand it the Multiplus 3000 has a peak power rating of 6000W , so for start up of say an airconditioner that has Locked Rotor amps of say 17amps at 240V = 4080W for a very brief time, the inverter is capable of supplying all of that if required. So when the power assist feature is enabled to co-power a generator then if the gennie can provide 2000W the rest can come from the inverter until the equipment is in run mode where it might draw 6 amps = 240v*6 = 1440W and so the inverter power assist is not needed then. Happy to be corrected, as I have not actually used this feature yet.
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Old 23-05-2022, 02:58   #25
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Re: Inverter recommendations

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I have the Longli bifacial 365W ones and they are actually lighter then same size LG polycristalin ones AND they have a full massive aluframe......... 3x365WP are 3mx1,7m which produces real 1320W=110A charge and even low light totally clouded still 30-40A.
Do you know how much you gain from the bifacial? Having read some good articles on the LG Website about bifacial they are likely to be our next choice of solar panel.

I was thinking of a simple test in good sunlight. Place carboard as a temporary sun block to the underside and let the panel settle. Then compare with the non shaded if you can, or take some measurements over say 10 minutes to even out the results and then remove the cardboard.

Whilst only a single event, it would produce and interesting result about the gains to be had.

I agree with their weight, our 300w Perlight is 18kgs, a 440 LG is 22Kgs so not worth worrying about.

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Old 23-05-2022, 06:53   #26
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Re: Inverter recommendations

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Originally Posted by jordanbigel View Post
Actually, I don't think this is completely correct. I was just reading about Power Boost on the Victron community site, and the upshot is that if your Multi is a 3000 (eg. MultiPlus II 12/3000/120-50/120) - then that is the max amount of current you can draw from it is 3000watt (and probably less in real world conditions).

The example you are thinking of has to include a scenario where the MP is capable of delivering more watts than your AC input can provide. So, if you have a small gen which delivers only 2000watt, and you have a MP 3000, then the MP can draw another 1000watt from batteries and combine that power with the 2000 from AC input to get a total of up to 3000watt.

I would love to be wrong about this, and I cannot find the Victron community post where I read this, so if someone more knowledgable can chime in on this I would appreciate it.

I have good news for you -- that is not in fact how Power Boost works.


Depending on which transfer switch you have, you get the whole inverter output PLUS whatever the transfer switch will pass through.



You can get the Multiplus 24/3000/70 with either a 50 amp or 16 amp transfer switch. Mine is 50 amps, so with 230 volt shore power the only limit is the full capacity of the shore power connection or generator.


My generator is 6.5kW so about 30 amps, which is more than I can get out of my shore power (which is fused for 32 amps but the "last mile" is 16 amps). I sized my wiring for those 30 amps plus about double the inverter's output (since it can briefly put out double its rating), so about 50 amps IIRC.


Now what concerns the "whole inverter output" -- note that it's not 3000 watts. It's nominally 3000VA, which is not the same, plus it's rated at some unrealistic temperature like 20C. I get at best 2500 watts out of mine, and that not continuously. I try to think of it as a 2000 watt inverter and try not to put on more than that much load at once.


But certainly I have no problem drawing 8.5kW through the inverter using the full generator output (which I don't usually use) plus Power Boost.
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Old 23-05-2022, 07:01   #27
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Re: Inverter recommendations

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Originally Posted by Tin Tin View Post
As I understand it the Multiplus 3000 has a peak power rating of 6000W , so for start up of say an airconditioner that has Locked Rotor amps of say 17amps at 240V = 4080W for a very brief time, the inverter is capable of supplying all of that if required. So when the power assist feature is enabled to co-power a generator then if the gennie can provide 2000W the rest can come from the inverter until the equipment is in run mode where it might draw 6 amps = 240v*6 = 1440W and so the inverter power assist is not needed then. Happy to be corrected, as I have not actually used this feature yet.

That's exactly how it works


Furthermore, the inverter itself can briefly provide about double its rated power. Starting up big electric motors is no problem with this unit.


If you have a 2000W generator, then with the 24/3000/70 you should be able to run a continuous load of at least 4000W, and provide brief startup power of over 6000W, maybe over 7000W.


Another useful trick, which I use, is to derate the generator to give it an easier life. My generator is rated for 30 amps @ 230v but I set the Multiplus control on 25 amps so that charging gets tapered off to keep below 25 amps, and if necessary I switch on Power Assist so that the inverter kicks in to protect the generator.



The same trick can be used to prevent popping shore power breakers.
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