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Old 27-09-2021, 01:12   #1
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if you buy the lifepo4 lithium battery from a China seller what is mostly concerned?

I am Lisa, very happy came here to introduce myself and our manufacturer.
We are a battery manufacturer in China, a lot of customers come from all over the world, but recently my boss want to open a store on Amazon and developing a new item lithium battery in a different color, design, function, and so on?
If you want to buy a lifepo4 lithium battery (12v 100ah, 200ah, 48v 100ah) , what is the mostly concerned? quality, price, service, or other sides?
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Old 27-09-2021, 03:58   #2
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Re: if you buy the lifepo4 lithium battery from a China seller what is mostly concern

Price , quality , the usual things. Iím currently buying at around Ä1 a AH
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Old 27-09-2021, 04:42   #3
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Re: if you buy the lifepo4 lithium battery from a China seller what is mostly concern

Concern #1 is the location of the manufacturer.
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Old 27-09-2021, 04:43   #4
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Re: if you buy the lifepo4 lithium battery from a China seller what is mostly concern

Personally I donít care where they are based
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Old 27-09-2021, 07:14   #5
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Re: if you buy the lifepo4 lithium battery from a China seller what is mostly concern

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisa Yin View Post
I am Lisa, very happy came here to introduce myself and our manufacturer.
We are a battery manufacturer in China, a lot of customers come from all over the world, but recently my boss want to open a store on Amazon and developing a new item lithium battery in a different color, design, function, and so on?
If you want to buy a lifepo4 lithium battery (12v 100ah, 200ah, 48v 100ah) , what is the mostly concerned? quality, price, service, or other sides?
Thank you for reaching out the cruisersforum community! From your message I understand that your company manufactures lithium batteries with an integrated BMS.

Currently there's a problem with almost all of the current batteries with an integrated BMS: they are not designed according to the ABYC TE-13 standard. Please read https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/ for more info.

What I would like to see is a LiFePO4 battery that is designed according to ABYC TE-13.

ABYC TE-13 does not prescribe a specific implementation. So I will give my idea here. Specifically, I would like to see the following:

- When the BMS detects an undervoltage condition, the BMS should send out an alarm signal for at least 30 seconds before disconnecting the battery. This alarm signal should be electrical and in the form of a solid state relay (SSR) that can carry at least 50 mA and is short circuit protected. The terminals of the SSR should go to a connector such that I can connect an alarm outside, far away from the battery.

- The battery should send an 'allow charge' signal. Also using an SSR and a connector.

- When the BMS detects an overvoltage condition, the BMS should disable the 'allow charge' signal for at least 10 seconds before disconnecting the battery.

- The setpoints of LVD and HVD should be programmable by the user.

As you see, a battery having above functionality would be different from your competitors. This difference would give your company an opportunity over others. I hope this information is useful to you.

Of course, questions and comments about my proposal are welcome! But please don't derail Lisa's thread.
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Old 27-09-2021, 09:27   #6
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Re: if you buy the lifepo4 lithium battery from a China seller what is mostly concern

Quite a few insurance companies are also refusing to insure boats/yachts with Lithium batteries that are not from specific manufacturers/certified installations. I'd recommend contacting major insurance carriers, as well as lithium battery installers like SALT in Marathon FL or MazOcean in Ft Lauderdale to find out specifics.
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Old 27-09-2021, 10:38   #7
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Re: if you buy the lifepo4 lithium battery from a China seller what is mostly concern

Matching cells with same low voltage, same high voltage, and same charge/discharge rate.

On the concern of BMS shutoff. I purchased a cigarette lighter alarm set at 12.5volts. Just put in any 12 volt plug, voila, low voltage alarm. And it is located where I can hear it. Not in my battery compartment.

I have 16 200ah cells recently from China. Should be 9.6kwh but that is from full charge to full discharge. I am getting 8.7kwh at from 13.5 volts to 12.5volts. I did pull 153 amps out of the bank with a hair dryer. Pretty cool.

Had problems with balancing cells. One cell just wanted to run up after 3.4 volts. Then found a miracle, active balancer that uses capacitance to balance cells. My BMS took days to balance but the active cell balancer took 2 hours to bring from delta of 200mv to 23mv. It also balanced them while discharging as well. I absolutely love my active balancer and encourage others to use them. I used the Heltec for about $40. I have three active Lifepo4 battery banks and will use the active cell balancer on all of them.

The active cell balancer that I have was able to move 2.8 amps from one cell to the others. My BMS (Daly) can move only 30mA but never saw 30ma of movement between cells. Tickled pink about the active balancer. I don't know why they are discouraged. I am thinking of putting 2 on each of my big banks.
I have also wondered why we are concerned with low voltage. Lifepo4's are not like the AGM, Gels, or FLA, they can be taken down to nothing and still work. Especially with as much power they provide, are we concerned about running them down. Recently, my solar was providing alot of power and I was crazy excited but when I checked my batteries, they were not charging. The BMS had shut off. I wonder if the BMS is more problems than they are worth. I get the charging aspect but wonder about the low voltage. Apparently my BMS shut off because one cell was below 3 volts. I will do more testing with the active balancer and may charge only with the BMS. My windlass is direct to negative.
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Old 27-09-2021, 12:18   #8
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Re: if you buy the lifepo4 lithium battery from a China seller what is mostly concern

[QUOTE=

On the concern of BMS shutoff. I purchased a cigarette lighter alarm set at 12.5volts. Just put in any 12 volt plug, voila, low voltage alarm. And it is located where I can hear it. Not in my battery compartment.

[/QUOTE]

I'm interested in purchasing one of these. Would you please share more information about the cigarette lighter voltage alarm?

Thanks.
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Old 27-09-2021, 12:51   #9
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Re: if you buy the lifepo4 lithium battery from a China seller what is mostly concern

Right now, a lot of people have been disappointed and had problems with LifePO4 batteries originating in China. Specifically, receiving damaged or poor quality batteries and returns not being accepted. If you are a Chinese company wanting to start an Amazon store, your should have a warehouse in the US, and only sell stock from that warehouse. Nothing should ship from China. You should have a no questions asked guarantee and stand behind the product.

I agree with earlier comments about ABYC. I would like to see this implemented with status relay outputs which can be programmed to various alarm conditions, and one of those needs to be a pending disconnect. I think the time should be user adjustable. 30 seconds might not be long enough.
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Old 27-09-2021, 12:56   #10
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Re: if you buy the lifepo4 lithium battery from a China seller what is mostly concern

I have got my (expensive) experience with LiFe batteries and have the following concerns:
1. the balancing capacity has to be large. I tried to use a Daly with 30mA and that was way too little. After all we are charging with high current from the alternator.
2. the cut off when charging should only affect charging. On a boat, it is important that consumption is not affected. We can't sail without lanterns and navigational equipment.
3. there should be easily read displays that shows the status (capacity) of batteries, so that you have a chance to recharge before it is too late. Sound signal 30 sec before cut off will not work in a noisy environment.
I have myself given up on the Daly and bought a Chargery system, that balances with more than 1 Amp and has a clear display that shows the status of the batteries. I will at a later stade give a description of my new setup.
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Old 27-09-2021, 13:42   #11
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Re: if you buy the lifepo4 lithium battery from a China seller what is mostly concern

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Right now, a lot of people have been disappointed and had problems with LifePO4 batteries originating in China. Specifically, receiving damaged or poor quality batteries and returns not being accepted. .
In all fairness a lot of people only buy on price and do no prior research.

If they had, they would see the value of buying cells from those sellers recommended on forums such as diysolar

Quote:
If you are a Chinese company wanting to start an Amazon store, your should have a warehouse in the US, and only sell stock from that warehouse. Nothing should ship from China. You should have a no questions asked guarantee and stand behind the product.
How does that help me in Australia or any other part of the world?
Easier and faster for me to get stuff shipped from China than it is from the US
On many things it's faster to get stuff from China than it is in Australia
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Old 27-09-2021, 13:46   #12
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Re: if you buy the lifepo4 lithium battery from a China seller what is mostly concern

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Originally Posted by JasonS View Post
Quite a few insurance companies are also refusing to insure boats/yachts with Lithium batteries that are not from specific manufacturers/certified installations
Lithium batteries maybe but LifePo4?
There is a differnce

And I have "heard" about it but seen no actual evidence of this happening.
Is there any?
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Old 27-09-2021, 14:03   #13
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Re: if you buy the lifepo4 lithium battery from a China seller what is mostly concern

Quote:
Originally Posted by wholybee View Post
Right now, a lot of people have been disappointed and had problems with LifePO4 batteries originating in China. Specifically, receiving damaged or poor quality batteries and returns not being accepted. If you are a Chinese company wanting to start an Amazon store, your should have a warehouse in the US, and only sell stock from that warehouse. Nothing should ship from China. You should have a no questions asked guarantee and stand behind the product.

I agree with earlier comments about ABYC. I would like to see this implemented with status relay outputs which can be programmed to various alarm conditions, and one of those needs to be a pending disconnect. I think the time should be user adjustable. 30 seconds might not be long enough.
I donít see how anything is improved simply by warehousing it in the US.
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Old 27-09-2021, 15:31   #14
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Re: if you buy the lifepo4 lithium battery from a China seller what is mostly concern

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I donít see how anything is improved simply by warehousing it in the US.
You get the product quickly, and can return it easily if it isn't right. Having to wait 30-60 days for shipping from China, and then to be faced with hundreds of dollars in shipping to return it is what it avoids.
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Old 27-09-2021, 17:39   #15
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Re: if you buy the lifepo4 lithium battery from a China seller what is mostly concern

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Price , quality , the usual things. Iím currently buying at around Ä1 a AH
Yes, quality and price usually is the buyer mostly concerned.
Actually the price is depends by the quality, some supplier would like to save cost use the defective battery cell, not A+quality, so the battery balance is very poor, it will affect the battery use life and discharging charactristic, etc.

We use all new and A+ quality battery cell, brand eve, lishen, Ganfeng, etc and test all cell voltage, internal resistance, and capacity to keep it's balance insure the performance before making the battery pack.

I came here do the analysis just want to know ur needs and then developing a new item battery pack from quality, appearance, function, color, also including the price is fit for the market.

Thank you for your advice, it is very important to us.
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